Expert: James Yee - 7/26/2007

Question
QUESTION: James:

A follow up Q to my earlier one. I checked the bottom of the box and see to production codes, one under the burn stamp (EUN-FEB 07) and the other near the right upper corner marked EDC and beneath that UTCC. If these are suppose to be Cohiba Sublimes EL 2004, how could the box be marked anything but produced in 2004?

Help, I think I've been dupped again!!

Alan

ANSWER: Hi again Alan,

Unfortunately, I think you may have been duped as the box has two conflicting boxcodes.  "EUN-FEB 07" means the cigars were [supposedly] manufactured at El Laguito in February 2007.  El Laguito is the factory where Cohibas are produced so that is correct.  However, you're right: 2004 Cohiba Sublime Edicion Limitadas would not be produced in 2007.  Also, "EDC UTCC" is an older code and stands for Briones Montoto (Romeo y Julieta factory), March 1999 and it's very bizarre a Cohiba box would have a RyJ code.  It seems that the box is an older cigar box that was recycled and repackaged with fake cigars.

If there is anything else you need to know, please feel free to just ask.

P.S. - Aside from the bad packaging, how do the cigars taste and look?  Some counterfeit cigars have been known to taste better than the real cigar so if these Cohiba Sublimes look good and taste good, then it's not a complete loss.  

Regards,
James

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: James:

I wrote to the merchant, CubanHabanosCigars, from Spain and this is his response:
"For the codes it simple in production intur boxes show only not the production stamp for the cigar year but the stamp of the production year and month when they placed in box for store shipping. Also the Cohiba limitadas I know they keep the cigars in Spanish cedar wine barrels in a very large curing rooms. When they ready to go for sale they place them in the current boxes sense they are kept like this intentually for sell every 2-3 year vintages. Know these codes are only intur codes. EUN is the factory code for Cohiba Feb-07 is month and year box made EDC and UTCC is providence and factory of distribution which in Habana which located in El Laguito. I hope this helps you out...."

Does this give, or is he BS'ing me?

Alan

PS:
I have not smoken one of the cigars yet.
ANSWER: Hi Alan,

I’m going to quote the merchant’s email in my response:

They wrote:
"For the codes it simple in production intur boxes show only not the production stamp for the cigar year but the stamp of the production year and month when they placed in box for store shipping.”

Your box has two date stamps; one is 2007 (EUN FEB-07) and the other is 1999 (EDC UTCC).  Neither match the year of those cigars (2004).  A box of 2004 Edicion Limitada cigars (or any box Cuban cigars) would have either a 2003 or 2004 boxcode; depending on when they were produced.  (If the cigars were shipped in early 2004, they would be produced in 2003.)  A box would never be dated 5 years in advance nor 3 years late.

I know some Cuban cigar stores (such as La Casa Del Habanos) have an ink stamp for when they receive a box of cigars but the stamp would read the store name plus the date the box was received at that store, not when they are shipped.  Also, the distributor’s mark is never an ink stamped code.  Distributors will have a distributor sticker/seal on the box.  Habanos SA would never allow a distributor to put an ink stamp similar to the box code format because it would create confusion.

They wrote:
“Also the Cohiba limitadas I know they keep the cigars in Spanish cedar wine barrels in a very large curing rooms. When they ready to go for sale they place them in the current boxes sense they are kept like this intentually for sell every 2-3 year vintages. Know these codes are only intur codes.”

What this person is saying doesn’t make sense.  Why would 2004 Edicion Limitada cigars be packaged in a 2007 box and why would this only be limited for Tiendas Intur boxes?  2004 Edicion Limitada cigars will be in a box with either a 2003 or 2004 factory boxcode, no exceptions.  2004 ELs are no longer produced so how is it possible that they’re being packaged in a 2007 box?  This would mean that Habanos SA is still producing 2004 Edicion Limitada cigars as of this year.  Edicion Limitadas are produced for one year; the year they are designated for.  Any legitimate store/website that has 2004 Edicion Limitadas currently in stock would have existing ELs that were produced in 2003/2004 and not any other year.  (Also, if the Cohiba Sublimes Edicion Limitada was re-released in 2007, the EL band would read 2007, not 2004.)

They wrote:
“…EUN is the factory code for Cohiba Feb-07 is month and year box made EDC and UTCC is providence and factory of distribution which in Habana which located in El Laguito."

Partially true.  EUN FEB-07 does indeed mean El Laguito (Cohiba’s factory), February 2007 (see my last email) but EDC UTCC is not a providence or factory of distribution code.  I know for a fact that “EDC UTCC” is a box code for “Briones Mototo, March 1999”.  Based on the 1999 box codes, EDC is the factory code for Briones Mototo; the Romeo y Julieta factory.  UT stands for March and CC is 99 (C = 9) so UTCC = MARCH99.  This code format was used between January 1999 to May 1999.  Box codes were then changed in June 1999 and quickly changed again in January 2000.  Because Habanos SA is very protective of their boxcodes, all boxcodes are unique and never reused for anything else.  “EDC UTCC” does not represent a providence or factory of distribution code.

What you can do is contact Habanos SA directly and confirm this with them.  Forward a copy of that email to them as well as the contact information for CubanHabanosCigars.com.  Habanos SA’s email is habanos@habanos.cu.  The regional-appointed distributor for Habanos SA in Spain is Altadis SA and they can confirm if CubanHabanosCigars.com is an authorized Habanos retailer.  (If they are a legitimate retailer, Altadis would supply them.)  Email them the contact info for CubanHabanosCigars as well as the name of the merchant.  Altadis’ email is cigarros@altadis.com

Hopes this helps!

Regards,
James


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: James:

I greatly appriciate your help and expert advise!!I had a feeling you would pick apart the merchant's response as you did. I have already contacted my charge cards, disputed the charges and intend to return all cigars.
In the past, I had e-mailed Both Habanos sa and Callini sa, about a couple merchants in Costa Rica (e-mailed both several times) never got a response from either. I will this the same in this case, but wonder if any good will come from it. Do they really do anything in these cases, or even care enough to respond to the consumers?

Answer
Hi Alan,

You did the right thing by contacting your credit card and disputing the charges.  We need to put pressure on the counterfeit cigar industry.  The more pressure we put on these bad sellers, the harder it is for them to take advantage of us.

Habanos SA has always been very protective of the Cuban cigar industry and implemented a lot of things to deter the counterfeit cigar industry as much as they can.  Even if Altadis or Habanos SA does not personally respond to your emails, I’m sure they will still take notice of your email as well as the other questionable websites that other people report to them.  In any business or industry, if enough people complain, companies will take notice and do what they can to shut down the fraudulent merchants.  

Unfortunately, because the Internet has a high level of anonymity, fraudulent merchants are able to use this to their advantage.  Even if one bad website gets shutdown, these people can just easily start up another website or they might have several websites running simultaneously so they’re able to continue selling fake cigars.  The only way to fight back against the counterfeit cigar industry is to educate ourselves about Cuban cigars, be able to spot fakes and know which companies are fraudulent.  Once we know more and more about counterfeit cigars, we are able to avoid bad sellers more easily and this makes it harder for the counterfeit industry to succeed.

Regards,
James