Expert: John Newman - 6/2/2010

Question
QUESTION: We recently acquired my husband's aunt and uncle's Ridgeway Grandmother Clock, Mod. E167, Movement E, Serial #31777.  Walnut finish.  This clock was purchased Oct. 8, 1978 for their 40th wedding anniversary.

It was moved originally from their home to my husband's brother's home and it worked well there for several years.  Then it quit working.  He asked my husband if he wanted it and he said yes.

They transported the clock in four pieces, the pendulum, the weights, the clock (placing it on its back in a truck for a 20 mile trip, which probably didn't do it much good and the hood.

I have all of the original paperwork and have read all of it on how to get it restarted.  I have wiped down all of the brass parts with a soft cloth removing any fingerprints.  It said to put the heaviest weight on the far right as you faced the clock.  I did all of this.  It didn't distinquish anything about the other two weights as to where they went.  I pulled the chains independently until each weight was raised to the height of the opening of the clock door.  I read how to move the hands of the clock and the hands now match the chimes, 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 as well as the hour.  All of this does work and at the right position.

Here is my problem, after I put the pendulum on, and start the pendulum to swing, it will start to tick, it has run for as long as 10 minutes.  Sometimes it will just stop, other times it will wait until after the chimes sound and then stop.  

I have tried adjusting several things, I leveled the clock (it is on a tile floor, not carpet).  I started by putting all of the leveling legs up next to the clock itself.  There is no moon phase dial.

The suspension spring seems to be fine.  There was a replacement with the original information but it doesn't appear to need to be replaced.  It says to use your forefinger to move the verge assembly from one side or the other slightly to get it back into balance which I have done several times but yet to no avail.

The pendulum itself isn't as straight when facing it as it would like but I don't want to damage it by trying to straighten it, it seems a bit twisted.  I started with the pendulum nut at the far bottom and then all of the way up to the round piece and now it is in the middle.  If I take the pendulum off completely, the pendulum suspension arm will swing back and forth, ticking but faster than it should but at least it ticks.  Once I put the pendulum back on, it works like I said for 10 minutes or so then stops or after it chimes.

I moved the face forward, to the right and to the left and it did go back into a groove but still to no avail.  I have tipped it to the right and to the left to see if it would tick louder or better but it doesn't seem to help.  The hands are not touching one another not the face of the clock nor the glass with the hood on.  The pendulum was touching or brushing up against one of the rods for a chime but I moved it forward away from the rod and now the pendulum doesn't touch anything but I can't find the balance it takes for it to keep going.  Does something else need better aligned for it to work properly.

I am open for any further suggestions.

Carol

ANSWER: Well, Carol, you have certainly tried just about everything.  The last technical reference book I received from Ridgeway did not include the "E" movement, but later versions such as EJ, EN, etc.  Later I might need to know the model number found in information on the back plate of the movement itself, but the biggest help would be if you could send me a clear photo of the back of the clock movement showing the pendulum hanging.  My shop email address is below.  That way I could see if everything is in order.  It could be that the clock is not actually running, but the pendulum is just swinging under its momentum.  This will usually last 5 to 10 minutes.  If everything is in order, it could be that the movement is out of beat.  Being "in beat" means that the tick tock is even.  The instructions for moving the verge assembly are correct, but is a rather rough adjustment.  I do it a little differently in that I move the end of the crutch (the arm that comes out of the back of the movement to one side or the other and slip it past the resistance point so it swings an equal distance left and right from vertical.  It is a little tricky the first time you try, but once you get it it will be easy.  As there are different verge configurations on movements, the procedure can vary.  That's why I would like to see a photo.  Below is my procedure for diagnosing a clock that is not running(most of these things you have already checked):



THE FIRST LEVEL IS THE SETUP.  

For Floor Clocks   If the clock is in operating condition but not working, I would check the stability of the clock in that it doesn't rock or wobble on the floor.  It should be relatively level.  The level is not critical, as setting the beat (below) will correct for this.  

Next, verify that the weights are hung correctly.  On most clocks the weights vary in weight.  The general rule is that if two weights are equal, the third weight, if it is heavier, goes on the right side (as you face the clock).  If the third weight is lighter, it goes on the left.

Is the pendulum hanging configuration correct?  This means that the suspension spring, hanger, verge and pendulum are all connected properly with nothing broken, especially the suspension spring.  When the pendulum swings, it should be "in beat", meaning that when the pendulum swings you hear an even tick....tock....tick....tock.  If it is uneven, like tick..tock......tick..tock, the clock will probably stop.  Most later model movements have an "auto-beat" mechanism.  The beat can be set by holding the pendulum over to one side next to the case and releasing it.  It will automatically correct itself.  If it does not have this feature, the escapement crutch will have to be slipped manually.  If required, I would need a good description of the verge and hanger mechanism or a photo of the back of the movement to give you instructions for that.  Also check to see if the hands are catching on each other or the dial.  Look at the chime and strike hammers to see if they are all in alignment at the rest position.  Sometimes jammed hammers or the drive mechanisms will stall the clock.

For Mantle or Wall Clocks   The clock should be stable and not wobble or rock.  There should be an even beat.  If not, wall clocks can be set in beat by moving the bottom of the clock to one side or the other.  Some wall clocks have the auto-beat adjustment.  Mantle clocks can be shimmed up on one side or the other to obtain an even beat.  These methods work if the beat is not off too much.  If the out-of-beat condition of these clocks are excessive, other adjustments have to be made.


THE SECOND LEVEL INCLUDES MAINTENANCE

Usually, the first symptom of a clock failing is that the chime and/or strike mechanisms slow down and then fail altogether.  At this point the clock needs to be serviced.  This includes cleaning, inspecting, oiling and adjusting.  In the inspection, the movement is checked for adjustments, broken or worn parts.  If there are any broken or worn parts, we go to the third level. If all parts are okay, a good clock oil and grease is used.  In most cases the movement should be removed from the case to have access to all the lubrication points.  Clock lubricants can be bought from clock suppliers.  Using lubricants for other applications can cause problems, as some lubricants are not compatible with others.  This even applies to different clock oils.  After lubricating, the operation is checked for final adjustments.  I recommend maintenance be performed every 7 to 10 years.


THE THIRD LEVEL IS REPAIR.

This requires that the movement be broken down and all parts inspected and repaired or replaced, and then reassembled lubricated, adjusted and tested.  I do not recommend this except by an experienced clockmaker.



If you can, send me a photo as requested above.  And let me know if you are able to get it running.  If not, we'll try some more things.

John Newman
THE VILLAGE CLOCKSMITH
Old Prattvillage
Prattville, Alabama
klokdok@juno.com

(Due to the number of Allexperts questions and
the workload I have at my clock shop, I regret
that I cannot answer personal email questions on a timely basis
other than Allexperts follow ups.)


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I did let the pendulum assembly tick away without the pendulum attached to it.  It lasted about an hour.  But picked up 15 to 30 minutes.  The sound of the tick tock was regular (except fast) and strong.  Much stronger than when the pendulum is attached.
The marking on the back of the face of the clock says:
Dial E
Movement E
Model 167
Finish: VALE
Serial #22277
I'm sending several pictures, hopefully something will help.  There is a solid wooden back to the clock and the workings are all firmly attached to it, so getting good pictures were not as easy as I would have liked.
Hope this helps give you more ideas.
I do have the instructions and could try to copy it if you wanted to see the schematics it provides.  Let me know.
I will send other pictures to your email address so you can see all of them.

Answer
Okay, send the photos to my email address.  From the one you included, I can tell from the photo you included that your movement was manufactured by Urgos, and it looks like everything is hung correctly..  Back to your original question, the adjusting of the nut on the bottom of the pendulum bob is for regulating the timing of the clock and should only be adjusted slightly.  When you get the clock running, it will have to be adjusted again, as it is probably quite a bit out now.  Taking the pendulum off does not tell us anything, as it is not being regulated.  If there is a problem with running, it will run with the pendulum removed, but not with it on.  So this is not a good test.  I will not need any paperwork, as I have what I need for most movements.

John Newman