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Clocks, Watches/hermle movement issue


QUESTION: Hello, thank you for taking the time to field questions.  It is appreciated.  I have an early 1970's Seth Thomas mantle clock (Legacy IV, 8 day key wound) with a Hermle A 403-001, two jewels, 7213 movement. When I go to wind the center (not sure of the name for what the key fits on) I get about 3 turns, then the tension releases and I hear a sort of clunk.  I believe this is the winding for the time, and it does only run for a very short time.  I'm thinking the spring is either broken or no longer secure enough to take the strain of a full winding.  I know it isn't a valuable clock, but I have fond memories of it from my grandmother's house while I was growing up.  What are your thoughts regarding if a new movement is necessary or there is something else that can be done.  Thank you for your time and professional experience.

ANSWER: Hi Matt.
These clock springs often break from the outer end piece. This one area that I always check when cleaning a clock. I take out the springs and look at the end piece. Many,many times they are about to break through. As a clock keep running and if it isn't cleaned the pivot holes wear. The barrel holes wear too. By the time you are done purchasing parts for this clock you will be 1/2 way to the price of a new movement.

Your clock is on the older side and I would recommend replacing the movement.

The trick of replacing new movements is to get the all the arbors aligned in the center of the holes in the dial. Some movements have these "feet."

If they are misaligned the hands may rub on the center hole and the key may not fit to wind the clock.

Others have two brackets, one on each side of the movement. If you're lucky you will have the two brackets as shown here.  

Hermle made movements for Seth Thomas clocks. They have different serial numbers. You need a Hermle movement number 350-060 as a replacement. I order my movements from Mark Butterworth at Butterworth clocks. I find his prices fair and he is always ready to help if you have questions. Check with Mark about which movement you will need.
His phone number is  1-563-263-6759.

You may have to adjust the bushing in the minute hand for the clock to chime exactly on the quarter hour. There is a bushing in the center of the minute hand. You need to get a pliers and hold that bushing while you move the hand itself to the correct position. If you have trouble with that write back and I can help you.

Hope this helps,
The Clocklady

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QUESTION: Hi Ms. Bellotti,

Thanks for the very prompt answer.  I looked at the link you sent regarding the movement mounting brackets.  Mine are shaped a bit differently and I don't know if that will matter.  Mine do not have equal radii at each end.  The top (as looking at the rear of the clock) have a much flatter curve for the radius. The bottom one does look more like the ones in the link.  Also, is the movement only held to the case by the 8 screws in the brackets?  Is this something that can be removed and replaced by someone with moderate mechanical ability?  I know that is very subjective, but I can fix a fair number of things and am mechanically inclined. Thanks again for your time.  Have a great evening.

Hi Matt.

I think you should give it a try. If you can't figure it out then you will have to take it to a clock shop to put in for you. At least you will have the new movement.

First you have to take off the hands. There is a hand nut that holds the minute hand on. The hour hand is pressure fitted on.

Then you take out those 8 screws. The movement should come right out.

I don't remember if the new movements come with those feet but if not you will have to put them on, just as you take them off.

*****Only ONE nut and ONE foot at a time.****8

You don't want to take all those nuts holding the movement plates together off at one time. Then you will have a real mess on your hands.

Again the trick is to get the winding arbors and the hand arbor in the middle of the dial holes. Maybe you can find a trick on youtube to help you get them aligned. You may even want to look up on youtube how to replace a mantel clock movement.

Once you have that done write back and I'll help you with getting the hands so the clock strikes exactly on the quarter and hour.

The Clocklady  

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Marilyn Bellotti


This is for advice only. ~Most~ repairs need a professional. If I can help you with an adjustment that can set your clock back in order I will try. I can not write a chapter on clock repair. I will point you in the right direction and you will have to do your own research on how clocks work for more intense repairs. -No Watches -No Appraisals. Search ebay for past sales for that information.


29 years repair experience

Certified Horologist

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