Clocks, Watches/clock weights

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QUESTION: Hello,  We have recently acquired a Kieninger floor clock and we have some confusion over the clock weights. The markings on the back of the movement are as follows:- Kieninger 07 K 116cm.  I have been told that the weights i need are 2 x 9.9lb and 1 x 7.7lb. Could you tell me if this is the corrects weights please? The clock did not come with the weights or pendulum but we were told to get a 10 1/2 bob pendulum which we did and now we would like to get the weights but i read conflicting things on the internet and now i am confused as to what weights i should get and what position they have to be in, i.e, left, right and center. I cannot seem to find any information on this particular clock, especially parts for it. We would really love to get it up and running. Also i have been told that it is a cable driven one but we have chains ?? Any information would be extremely helpful. Thank you very much.

ANSWER: Sally, I do have some specs on the Kieninger movements.  For the chain driven Westminster (4 hammers on the chime side) grandfather movement, one of my suppliers lists the 07 weights as 6.6#, 6.6# and 7.7#.  The Kieninger movement book lists the Model KK as being a chain driven Westminster with the weights being 6.6#, 6.6# and 7.7#.  The way this works is that if the pendulum is a wood stick type, the weights would be, from left to right, strike 6.6#, time 6.6# and chime 7.7#.  If the pendulum is a Lyre style with a lot of metal rods and designs, it would be, from left to right, 6.6#, 7.7# and 7.7#.  This is because the heavier pendulum requires more power (7.7# for the center weight.)  I very seldom get calls for this movement and am not that familiar with it, but a 10-1/2" diameter bob sounds too big.  The Kieninger manual calls for a 165mm (6-1/2") diameter pendulum.  One very important factor is that if the pendulum is too big, it can hit the sides of the case which will make bumping sound and disrupt the regulation (timing)of the clock.

When you buy a pendulum for the clock, yours would be a 116cm pendulum.  That is not the actual measurement of the pendulum, but the correct pendulum for the the way the movement is geared.  I believe Kieninger measures from the center shaft (hand shaft) of the movement to the center of the pendulum bob, but it will be different whether it be a stick pendulum or a Lyre pendulum.

Actually, I think my supplier's listing had a typo, so I'm waiting to hear from him.  I corrected it and am waiting for him to confirm.  I will let you know the final readings when I hear from him.

John Newman
The Village Clocksmith
Vintage Emperor Clock Consultant
Located in Old Prattvillage
Prattville, Alabama


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QUESTION: Hi,
Thank you for that. Now i am confused lol.  I wrote to Kieninger through their website and he replied and told me to get a 10 1/2 bob plus 2 x 9lb weights and 1 x 7.7lb weight. I hope i didnt get the wrong pendulum?? We sort of have it working at the moment and the pendulum swing is no where near the sides and has a very slight motion to it, but if it is the wrong one then i would rather get the right one for it so its done properly. If you can find the correct pendulum size and the weight sizes please let me know so i can get them and to get this clock up and running perfectly. Thanks again.
Kind Regards
Sally

Answer
Sally, I guess you are confused!  There is nothing more complex than choosing weights and pendulum lengths for a clock.  I am not sure which Kieninger Website you contacted, but we always choose Howard Miller, as they own Kieninger.  And thanks for sending the photo of the clock.  It is a curio clock and you would not have any problem hitting the sides unless it might hit the bottom glass shelf if it was too big or out of level.

The variations of this model movement are the difference in chains or cables (cables require more weight), stick or Lyre pendulum (Lyre with large bob require more weight) and a Westminster (single chime) or triple chime (triple requires more weight).  These factors determine the weight sizes.  So Kieninger needs to know that your model has the chain drive, the 10-1/2" diameter Lyre pendulum bob (which should be used in this curio clock) and whether it has the Westminster or triple-chime feature.  If they did not have all this information, you might want to verify that with them.  Good luck and let me know what you find.

John Newman  

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John Newman

Expertise

As much as I would like to offer values of clocks, I am not a certified appraiser and will not venture into giving an unresearched guess. There is very little published information on what I consider to be the value of "modern production clocks". Considerations are what the clock originally sold for, the condition of the case and movement, and particularly the area in which you live, the demand and the economy. ALSO, WATCHES ARE NOT MY FIELD. However, I can advise the clock owner on proper maintenance of a clock to keep it running, small corrections and adjustments and how to move a clock without damaging it. I can also advise on obtaining parts for clocks. It helps if you can send any information on the clock movement which is usually found on the back plate of the movement. I have been a clockmaker for about 35 years and was plant engineer in the mid 90's and later operations and engineering consultant at Emperor Clock Company in Fairhope, Alabama. I now have my own clock shop.

Experience

One of my greatest accomplishments was traveling to China to assist a clock factory in building clocks to the standards which we required. With the proper specifications and quality control, some beautiful clock cases were built. The factory people from the wood carvers to the plant manager were very congenial, friendly and I left a lot of wonderful friends when I returned from my trips.

Organizations
NAWCC (National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors) 30 years Prattville, Alabama Chamber of Commerce

Publications
Horological Times, a publication of the American Watch and Clockmakers Instute. Collaberated column author, with Photos and ideas for clock movement conversion article.

Education/Credentials
Associate of Science Mechanical Engineering Technology Emperor Introductory Clock Repair (Eventually taught a portion of the class after becoming employee)

Awards and Honors
Small Business of the Quarter (Prattville, Alabama) Leadership Class of 2009 (Autauga County, Alabama)

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