Expert: Brad Swain - 12/23/2009

Question
QUESTION: Brad, I have an 8 Reales Pillar Dollar but I can't figure out the location where it was struck. The mint mark is worn off & but the Assayers & Mint Masters initials are clear. CAROLUS IIII DEI GRATIA REX 1802 8R I. I. Where in the Krause will I find this coin? Thanks in advance Mark S.


ANSWER: Hi Mark, It appears to be a silver dollar sized Spanish-Peruvian 8 Reales. That design features King Charles IV (1788-1808). The I and J are the Lima mint's assayers' initials. The Lima mintmark, between Rex and 8R, is a monogram of LIMAE. There were 3.875 million minted that year. It should weigh 27.0674 grams and would contain .7797 of an ounce of silver. Collector value depends on date, number minted and condition of a coin, including amount of wear, any dents, scratches or cleaning. This one may be worth about $20 with heavy wear to maybe $75 with moderate wear to possibly $125 with light wear.
The “Spanish Milled Dollar” and its fractions were the principal currency through the early 1800s in U.S. everyday circulation and were legal tender as late as 1857.
You might find similar pieces on Ebay.com for comparison. These sites are also a great info source:
http://carlclegg.com/pillars/design.html .
http://www.coinsite.com/content/faq/8RealesMilledPillar.asp .
Counterfeits and fantasy pieces mass produced in East Asia, the Middle East and Eastern Europe abound of Chinese and U.S. coins, and many other countries'.
Weighing it may be the best telltale of its genuineness.
Fakes: http://reviews.ebay.com/Fake-8-4-and-2-Reales-coins-from-ASIA-BEWARE_W0QQugidZ10
Chinese counterfeit factory: http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/Chinese-Fake .
Brad

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Brad, I had early on found the Lima, Peru struck I. J. in the Krause but mine doesn't match, even allowing for distortion. Mine is full weight for the grade G/AG (25.6 grams), 40mm, good color (heavy natural gray) & long held by an experienced collector. Both I.'s are identical & have all 4 serifs bold & clear. It lacks the tell tale signs of most cast counterfeits, but, I will admit that it doesn't "ring" very well.

Answer
Hi Mark, it should also have a dot between the I and I (which should be I and J). It may be an older fake. My old Standard Catalog of World Coins lists the weight at 25.0 grams but the newer edition lists the 27.0674 weight.
Here are some others for comparison:
http://cgi.ebay.es/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200404143921
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/peru-8-reales-1800-ij-lima
You might take it by a local coin shop for a first hand opinion: http://find.mapmuse.com/interest/coin_dealers
You might also try your question here: http://forums.collectors.com/categories.cfm?catid=6
Brad