Expert: Dmitry Livshits - 2/12/2010

Question
QUESTION: Hello Dmitry,
I have a thaler attached to a old Yemeni headdress which I can only see the reverse side. It doesn't have a dot between the date and the X. Also the "V" in the AVST is definitely a "U" and not a V. My research leads me to believe that this Thaler may not be that common as most. Can you tell me if my thinking is right or wrong.
Thanking you.

ANSWER: Hi Roslyn,
In 1780, a U on a coin was always written as a V on European coins. What you have is a novelty replica made specifically to be used in a crafted item. This is the same thing as those belly-dancing coin belts, which have modern replicas of old Ottoman coins. Some of the better ones are made of actual silver, and would have some value as such.
Most are made of "German Silver" which is a shiny nickel plated brass alloy. Some are even made of a mix of various metals known commonly as "White metal" or melchior.
It makes sense that it is attached to a Yemeni head dress. The 1780 Maria Theresa thaler was the only coin trusted for trade in the Middle East. It only stands to reason that a coin which had been so popular and well known in the history of that region would be the model for something like this.
Thanks for the question! =)

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QUESTION: Thank you Dmitry. Maybe I should mention that the headdress is an authentic Bedouin wedding headdress probably from the early 1800's and not a reproduction or novelty piece. I have looked at the web site www.jdsworld.net/article/m theressa thalers.html. It shows a variant that looks like this thaler and is also missing the dot and with the U instead of a V. It is listed as a Guenzbury 1787 ( Hafner 34c ). While I do understand that as a coin it probably has no real value to a coin collector but as a collector of headdresses and Bedouin jewellery I would like to identified the thaler as I know it is not to be a novelty replica. Are you aware of anyone who specializes in these thalers? Once again thank you :)

ANSWER: Roslyn,
With this new information I can definitely look at the coin as something special, rather than something common as I had previously assumed.
Hafner 34c refers to the classification in the catalog "Lexicon of the Maria Theresien Taler 1780" by Walter Hafner (pub. 1984). I actually had a copy in my storage locker full of reference materials I rarely use. Thanks for getting me reacquainted with this one. =)
Guenzburg is the mint where many of the coins were struck, with the frozen date of 1780. The Hafner 34c variety was struck from 1797 to 1800, while the 34b was struck in 1787 (and is also more rare than the 34c).
The only was to distinguish the two is by looking at the signature below the bust. If it is "S.F." with single separator dots, you have the 34c. If it's an "S:F:" with colons, then you have the 34b.
After adjusting for inflation, the current values would be $300 to $600 for the 34c and $700 to $1,200 for the 34b. The range is from a decent, middle condition to near mint.
It is certainly a great coin, though it almost makes me wish that it had been kept separate.
Thanks again! =)

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QUESTION: Thank you for your quick response. You can imagine my curiosity about the other side of the coin !! It has been sewn on and I am not wishing to damage the headdress as it itself is rather special( and fragile) but seeing that the coin may also be special, I think I might give it ago. I shall let you know what I find on the other side. :)

Answer
Roslyn,
My knowledge of Middle Eastern antiques is limited, but I have a feeling your head dress may be worth more intact.
However, you can always replace the thaler with a much cheaper Ottoman coin from that era and maintain the value.
I'll await your follow-up!
Thanks again. =)