Expert: Martin G Roberts - 2/9/2009

Question
QUESTION: Hello!  I have enjoyed a very pleasant Sunday morning exploring your website.  I have a mug and am trying to  understand the markings.  I understand now the meaning of the crown and 37 stamped  in the mug, but cannot find any explanation of the 4
         64   printed beside it.  Any information or re-direction on your part would be appreciated!
Regards,
Sandra from Canada     picture on this site

http://www.clarksonauctions.com/thumbnails%20dont%20delete/Rudy%20051.jpg

ANSWER: -

Hello Sandra,

Thanks for the kind words.

If you look closely at the verification mark on your mug, you will see below the crown it reads EiiR - the regnal monogram for Elizabeth 2nd. The 4 and 64 represent the month this mark was applied: April 1964.

It is unusual to see a large pewter mug or measure apparently having been in use in the 1960s. Very small measures were at that time in use, but larger pieces had mostly disappeared from the pubs.

Hope that helps.

Martin
www.antique-metalware.co.uk

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QUESTION: http://www.clarksonauctions.com/thumbnails%20dont%20delete/Rudy%20050.jpg

http://www.clarksonauctions.com/thumbnails%20dont%20delete/Rudy%20048.jpg

Hello!  The mug is stamped James Yates..that does not seem to fit with the 1964 date...????? any thoughts?

Best Regards, Sandra

ANSWER: -

Hello Sandra,

James Yates worked 1860-81 under his own name. But his name continued to be used as a tradename by successor firms, including Gaskell & Chambers until the 1970s, and into the 1980s by James Smellie. Some of the marks they used were only approximate copies of Yates' authentic marks, and such are the marks on your mug. Your mug was made by Gaskell & Chambers in the 1960s, though the form is identical to mugs made in the mid-late 19th Century in Birmingham, and it may well have been cast in original moulds from that period. Mugs like this from the second half of the 20th Century are common sights in the UK, though only occasionally do we see one verified for use in the pub trade - most would have been (and still are) sold as gifts, souvenirs, and the like. Interesting, but very late I'm afraid.

By the way, your photo of the James Yates marks is very good, much better than the version the Pewter Society presently has on its database. Would you mind if I took a copy and added it to the database to help other collectors?

Hope that helps.

Martin
www.antique-metalware.co.uk

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QUESTION: Hello Again!   The photos I sent were from an auction company website and I assume it would be permissible to use them.   I had assumed the mug to be much older due to the Yates stamp. Now, with your help, I feel very knowledgeable about the mug.   I will continue to watch for interesting pieces....hopefully something a little more unique than this one...just out of curiosity, what price are these "souvenir" mugs in England? Why do you think that this mug  would have been "verified for use in the pub trade"?  I am glad that it is a bit unusual.  Best Regards, Sandra

Answer
-

Hello again Sandra,

Then the photos are copyright of the auction company, so we cannot use them without their permission.

The moulds are still in use by the firm AE Williams, who sell that mug (they call it a tankard, erroneously) here: http://www.pewtergiftware.com/tankards2.htm (see number 553, though it does not seem to be listed in the price list - contact them for info). Secondhand, a mug like this is worth almost nothing.

The mug in question bears a capacity verification mark for Sheffield, applied by a local weights and measures inspector - that is only done if the piece is in use, measuring liquid for commercial purposes. For mugs like this, that usually means serving beer in a pub.

For future reference, I assume when people enquire they do so about pieces in their possession or which are consigned to them. Otherwise, I am effectively being asked to evaluate items being offered by traders of one kind or another, and I only do that if the trader is aware of the process. In this case, when I saw the hyperlinks to an auctioneer's website, I assumed you were enquiring on their behalf. I shall change my profile details to make it clear for the future.

Hope that helps.

Martin
www.antique-metalware.co.uk