Expert: Vic Winnek - 10/12/2011

Question
QUESTION: I'm wondering about the physical beating taken by a QB, beyond the obvious occasional sack or tackle while scrambling. In general, how often does a QB get knocked to the ground during a game? I'm especially interested in the moments during or immediately after the ball has been thrown. At exactly what point does it become illegal to make contact, and on average how often does this contact happen anyway? Also, when the QB sees that he is going to be tackled and has no other options, I've seen them just take themselves out by going down to the turf before the actual tackle. I'm thinking it would be a penalty for a defenseman to land on top of him anyway? Is it safe to say that the play is officially dead as soon as both of the QB's knees hit the ground, even if not actually tackled? (And if you happen to know how these answers vary with high school and professional, I would be interested in that as well.)

ANSWER: Gaylen
I do not have the statistics of how many times in a college game the QB gets knocked down,  As to your question: "what point does it become illegal to make contact" the QB; the passer is always protected from personal fouls and unnecessary roughness fouls.  The passer gets special protection as he is throwing the ball and completing the throw - this is the time he is most vulnerable.  Landing on top of a QB or runner who is going to the ground on his own is not a foul unless there is some other unnecessary foughness or persoanl foul conduct involved [i.e. late hit, helmet to helmet contact, facemask, etc.).  These rules are basicly the same or similar at all levels.

It is safe to say that the play is officially dead as soon as one or both of the QB's or any ball carrier's knee or knees hit the ground, even if not actually tackled.  This rule is the same in high school and in the NFL the rule is different, there must be contact by an opponent for the play to become dead, except id the QB gives him self up.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thank you. This is very helpful. Now, just to be clear: In college the play is dead as soon as the ball-carrier's knee hits the ground (whether tackled or not), but in the NFL a defensive player must make contact before the play is officially dead. Is that right? And there is no rule against landing on top of the QB, even if he is down, so therefore the following scenarios could happen: The NFL QB goes to his knees to avoid being tackled, but a defensive player could plow into him (out of sheer meanness, etc.), as his way of providing the necessary contact so that the play is officially ended. No penalty is called because it is not a late hit, and it would not even count as unnecessary roughness?

Also, you say "The passer gets special protection as he is throwing the ball…" Does this mean that the QB cannot be tackled while throwing (in the midst of forward arm motion)?

Also, sorry, but I forgot to ask in my original question: Do you happen to know of any important rule changes (in HS, college, or NFL) pertaining to these issues of QB protection since, say, 1975?

Answer
Gaylen
Yes the play is dead when the runner or ball carrier's knee or knees touch the ground in high school and college and there generally needs to be contact in the NFL for the runner to be down by contact.

You scenarios are not correct, those are plays involving personal fouls.  Your play situation is a foul - "NFL QB goes to his knees to avoid being tackled, but a defensive player plow into him (out of sheer meanness, etc.), as his way of providing the necessary contact so that the play".  That situation is an unnecessary roughness foul.  If the QB is giving himself up then the play is deemed dead without contact.

The "passer" does get special protection as he is throwing the ball and after completing the pass.  The passer can always be tackled when he has the ball.  When he doesn't have the ball any contact with the passer is subject to special protection rules.  If the contact with the passer [not the QB but the player throwing the pass, which usually is the QB] is minimal or marginal and not unnecessarily rough then it likely is not a foul.  Such contact is taken on a play by play basis and judged by the referee.  If the contact with the passer is such contact that would ordinarily be a personal foul, contact above the shoulders or contact that is obviously late and unavoidable then that would be roughing the passer.

As for your question: are there any important rule changes (in HS, college, or NFL) pertaining to these issues of QB protection since, say, 1975?  Yes.  There are many in the NFL Rules book but as you note from my AllExpert Profile, NFL rules are not within my expertise.  Under the NCAA rules there are some rule changes regarding intentional grounding, horse collar, etc.