Expert: Thom Brooks - 11/25/2007

Question
QUESTION: I just watched LSU's nat'l championship hopes die at the hands of Arkansas and they deserved to lose. That in mind, I have a question about a curiosity that nobody can answer. After LSU scored on their possession (the first in OT, since they won the toss), Arkansas scored. What happened next was a source of puzzlement: based on what I thought were the rules governing College OT, LSU should've gotten the ball back. Instead, Arkansas got the ball back and with the momentum from having just scored a touchdown, they easily scored another one! Please help clear up my confusion....maybe I missed something, like a quick interception that LSU may've thrown




ANSWER: Ken, hello!

After the first two overtimes, the teams start changing end zones and the last team that scores, takes possession again, but the other team has the equal chance to tie the score.  Arkansas wanted the game a bit worse, but LSU didn't play their game.  I'm a Georgia Bulldog fan so LSU still goes to the SEC Championship to face Tennessee (or maybe Georgia).  LSU will finish in the top ten with a win against Tennessee and their bowl game.  Georgia could possibly finish in the top 3 if they win out.  It appears that Kansas will beat Missouri and face West Virginia for the title, unless politics gets Ohio State into the game.  

I'd like to see Kansas and Hawaii both be undefeated and mee for the championship.  I'm also a Georgia Southern Fan (with 6 national championships in Div. 1-AA) and have always favored a 16 game playoff for Div. I, as well.  

I've heard the pros and cons but think a playoff system would give many teams a chance, plus the fan attendance and revenue would increase over the current bowl games.  

This season, we will likely have 4-6 teams that could have been selected to play for Number One, so many teams will be unhappy with their fate.  

Sorry for deviating from your original question, but I'm a football purist that sees where a few changes would improve the sport.  I'd like for an entire 5th quarter be played, as if were a regular quarter, and not get into the overtime rules you wrote about, unless the score was still tied after 5 quarters.  

Hope I've helped!

Take care,

Thom Brooks  


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks for your response, I totally agree about playing a 5th quarter. What I'm still confused about is that Arkansas got the ball back after their 1st touchdown, after LSU had 1st possession and scored, thus completing the 1st OT. Perhaps you meant to say that after the first 2 POSSESSIONS they switch. But then LSU should've gotten the ball back after their 2nd touchdown, but that didn't happen. As it stands, the possessions went: LSU-ARK-ARK-LSU-ARK-LSU. That doesn't compute with your explanation, which should have been: LSU-ARK-LSU-ARK-ARK-LSU. What am I missing?

Answer
Ken, I have sent you the following NCAA website:


http://www.ncaa.org/library/rules/2007/2007_football_rules.pdf

This shows the Overtime rules, and they are still a bit cloudy on pages FR-63-67.

Remember, if we were not on the field we do not know the conversation between the team captains and officials.  They have the options to decide to kick or receive, to take the penalties or to decline (unless it's a dead ball penalty which is assessed on the next possession of overtime).

I just read in the NCAA rule book that if Team B runs back an extra point attempt for a score, it is 6-2, with Team A leading.  Team B gets the ball and if they score a TD, the game is over.  But, I've seen the Officials call the ball dead if the defense stops the extra point attempt that was intercepted.  So, that's a rule I've just learned after watching it used in error.  

If you become a football official, you will take state exams each year and it continues to be in this spirit.  The rules can be very confusing unless you're out there, play by play!  The announcers misstate the rules which confuses the issues.  I just watched a Georgia Southern vs. Furman game and the announcer admitted to being a Furman Alum.  He continued to harp on close plays that did not go Furman's way, but I saw them as perfect calls of possession and penalties.  So, it never stops!

With all my ramble, I hope you are content with the answers.  If not, let's continue to search.

If you have time, go to my son's website and listen to his music.  We think he may make it to the big show.

myspace.com/listen2three

Thom Brooks
Savannah, Georgia  






Ken, Wikipedia just stated Overtime rules as a coin flip after each series of possessions.  I disagree and will continue to search the rules.


Overtime was introduced to Division I-A in 1996, eliminating ties. When a game goes to overtime, each team is given one possession from its opponent's twenty-five yard line. The team leading after both possessions is declared the winner. If the teams remain tied, overtime periods continue, with a coin flip determining the possession order and field side for each overtime, until one team leads the other at the end of the overtime. Starting with the 3rd overtime, teams must attempt a two-point conversion after they score a touchdown. (In the NFL, overtime is decided by a 15-minute sudden-death quarter, and regular season games can still end in a tie if neither team scores. Overtime for regular season games in the NFL began with the 1974 season.)
Two point conversions are attempted from the three-yard line. The NFL uses the two-yard line.
The defensive team may score two points on a point-after touchdown attempt by returning a blocked kick, fumble, or interception into the opposition's end zone. In addition, if the defensive team gains possession, but then moves backwards into the endzone and is stopped, a one point safety will be awarded to the offense. In the NFL, a conversion attempt ends when the defending team gains possession of the football.

Thom




Ken, the scoring team has the option to take the offense in the next overtime, which gives the defense the choice of which goal to defend.  There is not a coin toss after the first coin toss of overtime.  I'm a high school football official and can easily confuse NCAA, NFL and High School, but after two possessions the order will change if the last scoring team did not elect to change.  I will go to the NCAA.org site today to see if I have mistated but think I'm correct!  I looked in the High School Mechanics books but the NCAA rules were not compared.  I didn't think the order of possession changed until after the second possession.

I recently worked a Junior Varsity game and our three man crew were perfect until the end of a quarter where a TD scored with no time left on the clock.  As the Line Judge, I did not inform the Referee of the end of quarter (I was keeping the official time on the field) because both teams took off running to the other end of the field.  A few minutes later, several people asked how much time was left in the first quarter and I told them we had been in the second quarter for several minutes.  The foul up was that the team that scored at the end of the first quarter failed to tell me that they changed goals after a touchdown on that side because they didn't want to kick into a pond behind the goal they had just scored in.  So !  Sometimes things happen on the field that are a mystery to fans and even a mystery to some of the goofy Officials!!  Those type of errors may be overlooked by many, but do not always have an effect on the outcome of a game.  I've seen penalties not called because they did not effect the play.  

I will write back today if I have a different answer, but for now, the team that scores can elect to take the ball again in the next possession, with the other team deciding on which goal to defend, but only if it begins a new series.

Thom Brooks