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College Football/defensive 12 man rule
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Question
QUESTION: Can a defensive team be called for 12 men on the field before the offense snapsthe ball?
ANSWER: Yes, That is illegal substitution. If the 12th player participates in the play it is illegal participation.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: so .. the refs can whistle the play dead and call illegal participation before the offense snaps the ball? i thought the defensive player who is extra has until the snap of the ball wether he knows it or not to run off the field before the refs flag the defense?
Illegal substitution is a dead ball five yard foul and will be called if there are more than 11 defensive players on the field and the "extra players" (substitutes) are not making a bona fide attempt to get off the field.
Illegal Participation is a live ball 15 yard foul and occurs once the ball is snapped with more than 11 players on a side. The reason officials try to enforce the illegal substitution is because it is a 5 yard foul rather than the 15 yard foul.
The defense do not have "until the ball is snapped" to complete their substitution, a substitute must replace a player immediately. Immediately has been defined as "within 3 seconds". Hence the substitute must replace the player within 3 seconds of going to the defensive huddle or to the vicinity of the replaced player.
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Vic Winnek
Expertise
Will Answer all queries RE: Rules of Football - NCAA & Federation; Officiating; Instruction on Football; Mechanics & application of rules; Setting up Instructional programs and clinics for: Officials, coaches and media; Liability Issues (Legal & Insurance questions)arising from coaching, playing, refereeing, product liability. Serve as an Consultant and Expert Witness in Football Related Matters in Tort and Contract (Standard of Care for: officials, coaches, players, assignors, BOD; Player, equipment, field & stadium Safety; Fee issues, independant contractor workers compensation. History of the College football game -its evolution. MY PURPOSE IS TO INFORM & EDUCATE FANS, MEDIA, THOSE INTERESTED IN FOOTBALL ABOUT: THE RULES, THEIR APPLICATION, PHILOSOPHIES; OFFICIATING; LEGAL ISSUES INVOLVING FOOTBALL. I WILL NOT RESPOND TO BASHING OF TEAMS, COACHES OR OFFICIALS. I will not dignify rude or disparaging comments with a response, nor entertain questions that use profanity or questions that suggest Football officials are corupt, such an insinuation is ridiculous and ludicrous.
Experience
24 years officiating High School & College football, NCAA Referee, Umpire, Back Judge & Line Judge 2 years Arena Football-substitution official Instructor of NCAA & Federation Officials, Played prep and college football; coached High School football; Athletic trainer; 23 years of instruction in Officiating Football
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Referee Magazine; California Football Officials Assoc. Instructor's Guide; NACC Div. 1-AA football officials' clinic; CFOA instrutional materials; Articles written: Line of Scrimmage mechanics, Forward Progress, Side Line Warnings, 2006 NCAA New Timing Rules; various instructional materials, UWLA Law Review
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BA USC 1987
JD UWLA School of Law 1996
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NCAA Div. 1 FCS & Div. III, 9 post season Bowl Games, play-offs, CIF Div. 1,2,3,5,8,9,10,12 Final, 10 years CIF Semi-finals, 19 years of CIF play-offs, California State High School Football Div. 1 Championship, Southern California Jr. College Championship, NCAA Div. III Semi-Final
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