Expert: Greg - 11/18/2007

Question
QUESTION:   I have had a compost pile for over 10 years, and it's enclosed with railroad ties.  I have read differing statements about the potential problems with creosote.  While I understand that contact with the creosote logs should be avoided, I've also read that if creosote breaks down into the soil, it cannot be absorbed by plant material.

So my basic question is whether there's any harm in using the railroad ties for surrounding my compost pile and then moving the compost into my garden.  As I said, I've read differing views.  As you'd expect, the organic gardening types say not to use it, but some of the science-type articles say it's okay even in a planting bed, if your plants aren't placed right near the ties.

I don't have any in a planting bed, but I'd appreciate if you could tell me or point me to anything you consider accurate on this subject.

Thanks.

ANSWER: Hello John

Excellent Question

The EPA is still haggling over the long term effects of Creosote and long term exposure with humans. You have probably read the same things that I have on this subject, and drawn the same conclusions that I have, which is, I really don't know.

So let's apply logic. This is used to treat wood for the prevention of pests, most notably Termites. If it is Toxic to pests, my guess is that it will harm a human is some way. I cannot with a clear conscience tell you that it would be ok to use this Compost in your Vegetable Garden.

I cannot even be assured in telling you that it would be ok to use in a non consuming way, such as using it around Trees and Shrubs. I have looked and there is NO timetable for the breakdown of Creosote in Soils, like 5-10-15 Years.
I did find an article that talked about safe handling of application of Creosote usage, which included Face Shields and Respirators. That alone should throw a warning flag.

http://www.epa.gov/pesticides/factsheets/chemicals/creosote_main.htm

Check this link out and see if you draw the same conclusions that I have.

I hope this helps
The Best of Luck

   Greg



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Greg,

Thanks.  I guess I found the same articles as you did.  If I were starting from scratch, I wouldn't use the railroad ties.  There's no question that it doesn't do you any good.  But, I've also read several articles in the past few days from University extension services that list railroad ties specifically as borders for making compost piles.

I wish the compost pile was constructed from something else, but I don't think I'll get rid of the railroad ties.  As I mentioned, the people who warn against using it cite common sense arguments, but the people who might be in a position to know the scinece behind it don't warn against it.  One article you might find interesting is from a public health site for Seattle: http://www.metrokc.gov/health/hazard/treatedwood.htm

This says specifically that it's not a problem:

"Old railroad ties are frequently used to build raised beds or to terrace slopes. This wood has been treated with creosote, a product derived from coal. Creosote has certainly proven itself as wood preservative over a long period, but because it is toxic and because it has become a restricted-use pesticide, questions have arisen about its safe use around plants.

Creosote can volatilize into the air, especially during hot weather, and plant foliage in the vicinity of the ties may be damage by the vapors. It can also leach into the soil near the ties, but it will not be absorbed by the roots and will therefore not get into the plants' tissues.

When using railroad ties for raised beds or similar areas, avoid putting plants too close to the wood. Keeping plants three of four inches away should prevent damage. Also, don't ever use creosote-treated wood in interior locations such as greenhouses, since the vapors will damage or kill plants in them."

I'm not disputing your common sense approach.  I'd follow it if I were starting new, but I think for now, I'll use the compost in areas other than my vegetable garden.

Thanks for your response.

John  

Answer
Good Luck John

I can't dispute your approach to this, but I just can't approve of that fact that Years down the road, research may prove this to be harmful.

This also applies to Pressure Treated Lumber if you ever decide to start over, this has not been proven to be safe either.

Again good luck
   Greg