Expert: Stephen Hayes - 6/25/2011

Question
QUESTION: Location: South Florida
House was built in 1998.
On April 2011 two ceramic tiles in the middle of the house lifted up (2 In)with explosive force. One tile broke. The same happend 05/06 and 05/13/2011 in adjacent area. The questions are: 1.Why? 2.Why after 13 years after installation? Any suggestions?
Thank you
Sam

ANSWER: Hi Sam;Thanks for your question.  There could be several reasons why that happened.  Since I can't see your installation, I could only guess, however, my strongest guess is that there is something negative happening to your foundation, such as cracking, moisture seepage, ground polution, etc.  I would suggest that you contact a local, knowledgeable home builder, and, for a second opinion, call in a local, professional home inspector to view your problem areas.  You may also have to call in a knowledgeable, professional ceramic tile installer, to remove those tiles and view the mortar adhesive spread and subfloor.  Check around the outside of your home for foundation movement, cracks, moisture damage, etc.  You may also find that you have a major problem that, in order to find its cause, may require removing all the tile and drilling into the subfloor.  Check your homeowners insurance to see if repair costs are covered, and check your contract with the builder to see, if construction flaws are found, you have recourse with that builder.

Cordially,

John Michaels

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear John,
Thank you very much.

The house is one store built on 12" concrete slab. I do not see any cracks on the walls. The slab is on the ground level and it is impossible to see any damage.
The contractor is gone.
Is it possible to attach photos?
The insurance do not want to cover any expenses and concluded that this is only bad installation. The Engineer that looks only one lifted tile concluded that this is the problem.(He is working for the Insurance company and I am not surprise)
I do not have the recourses to hire Inspector on my own
(Retired, 82 years old, limited income)

ANSWER: Hi Sam; From your description, it sounds like a foundation problem, so I would not believe the insurance company.  If they claim bad installation, they need to prove it.  Proving it requires a thorough inspection made by a knowledgeable contractor, not just a engineer that looks at only one tile.  That engineer needs to give you a certified report of his or her findings indicating what the installation error is or was.  Tiles releasing with 'explosive' force is usually related to a home construction problem.  If the tiles are installed on a concrete slab, that could be related to a problem developing in the concrete or under the concrete.  That problem could take years to manifest itself.  If the tiles are installed on the second level, over a wood type underlayment, there could be a shift or settling of the home due to a problem in or under the foundation.  It might be related to installation, however an installation problem that would result in what you describe would show up years earlier than it did.  

You should demand, of your insurance company that you be supplied with a certified report from their inspector (engineer), exactly what type of installation error caused your problem.  If they won't do that, I would suggest that you contact the legal aid representitive in your area who deals with clients that have limited resources.  That legal person could review your policy and insurer's responsibility to see if you can demand such an inspection and report.

Again, it may be an installation error, but from what you have indicated, it certainly doesn't sound like an installation problem.  You may need the services of a certified home inspector or certified building inspector to view your problem and submit a report.

You can attach photos to questions you ask on this website.  Just follow the instructions, but, even with photos, I may not be able to determine the problem.  I would need to see your problem.
However I am located in the NYC area.

If you do have a construction problem, such as a cracked foundation, the ground cover under the concrete failing, a moisture problem in the concrete (concrete is absorbent and always moves), a subfloor problem, an underlayment problem, etc., a total inspection of most aspects of your home would be needed.

I would suggest that you have no more verbal conversations with anyone related to the problem, such as your insurance company.  Only converse with them through letters delivered by certified mail with a return receipt request and keep a copy of what you mail out.  The best protection, however, would be for you to seek legal advice.

Cordially,

John Michaels

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear John,
Thank you for your help.My wife and I appreciate it very much.
I did receive the Report, below are the conclusions:
1.Glazed ceramic floor tiles have disbonded from the concretesubstrate and tented in the central area of the residence.
2. Floor tile disbonding and tenting is the result of the combined effect of the following factors:
a. The concrete substrate was not properly prepared by removal of drywall overspray prior to thinset installation.
b.The thinset was allowed to crystallize or partially "set up" resulting in a weakened bond between the thinset and the tiles.
c. A proper expansion joint was not provided at the perimeterof the tiles area to relieve normal expansion and contraction.
d. There is dimensional mismatch between the concrete substance and the tiles due to minor shrinkage of the concrete substrate relative to the tiles.
3. Floor tile disbonding and tenting is not result of settlement or other structural deficiencies in the residence.
4. Additional disbonding and tenting could be anticipated due to the above factors

He did not explain the explosive factor and did not indicate that this happened after 13 years after construction. The tiles lifted 2" and 3 times with 7-10 apart.
Can you recommend a professional inspector in my area?
Thank you. Your letters give me a hope.

Answer
Hi Sam;To resolve your problem, after 13 years, would be very difficult, even if you paid for your own inspection to be done.  If your own inspection reveals that the insurance inspector's report was not the case, then you would have to fight the insurance company who may reject your inspector's findings.  Then you have to proove something, which may lead to legal action and lots of money.  Research would have to be done to see if the EXACT manufacturer of your tiles still is in business, the same with the thinset manufacturer, original installation specifications would be needed, etc.  Just a lot of time and money.

After 13 years of usage, I would suggest you finding a reputable floor covering dealer, and either remove your tiles and install new ones or, perhaps, a less expensive floor covering, and if you choose that route, I would suggest that you contact your insurance company, let them know you are going to replace the tiles, and, if, during the replacement process, the insurance company's inspector's report is found to be untrue, you will demand to be fully compensated for the entire installation, including taking up the old tile, testing the concrete for moisture and determining that the concrete is suitable for a new tile installation, preparing the existing concrete for a new tile installation, the cost of new tiles, and any other expenses including disposal of the old tiles, and additional installation costs.  See what they say.  You may find that they will settle with you to cover some costs of a new installation.  If not, then you will take the gamble that the insurance inspector's report may be found to be true or untrue.  That may require legal action.  I am not an attorney, so I can't give you any legal advice.  I would suggest that you shop around for an attorney who would give you a free consultation to see if he or she can help you, and the approx. costs involved to go over your policy, and, perhaps, negotiate with your insurance company.

If you choose replacement, I strongly urge you NOT to purchase ANY floor covering from one of those large home supply stores or over the internet, and don't purchase ANY floor covering manufactured by Shaw Industries or one of its subsidiaries, or ANY floor covering offered by Lumber Liquidators.  Shop at a local, reputable floor covering dealer who could supply proper product, supply proper installation, warranty both of those things, and give you references, which you should check out.

If you do replace, the concrete MUST be properly tested for suitability and moisture.  The moisture test that must be done is the new ASTM F2170.  That is the new test method that supercedes ALL other previous moisture testing.  The new test requires that 3/4 inch drill holes are to be made into the concrete, in a grid system.  Then special RH capsules are inserted into those drill holes and left undisturbed for a certain time period.  Then a special meter is used to read the capsules moisture findings.  Those capsules are forever entombed in the drill holes and covered with a proper patching material before the installation of any type of floor covering.  If the moisture content of the concrete is found to be suitable for a new floor covering installation, great.  If it is not, then the moisture problem would have to be fixed before ANY type of floor covering is installed.

Let's say, forinstance, that you find a moisture problem.  It might be coming from under the foundation due to the original moisture barrier used to cover the ground before your foundation was poured beginning to fail, and allowing ground moisture to leach up into the concrete.  That would be a very expensive fix, requiring the concrete to be removed, a new moisture barrier installed over the ground, a new concrete pour, etc.

You have an expensive problem to be investigated.  If a dealer feels the concrete is fine and just needs to be properly prepared for a new installation, than you eliminate lots of cost, however you need to be certain that your sales contract contains protections for you.  You need to have your attorney handle such a matter.

That's about all I could tell you.  See what an attorney suggests and make your decision.

Cordially,

John Michaels