Expert: Commander Chris Wagoner - 12/6/2007

Question
QUESTION: I am writing a crime thriller novel and towards the end, one of my characters is arrested by the FBI and taken back to Washington D.C.  The character in question is female and had been on the FBI Ten Most Wanted List. Would interrogation take place in the J. Edgar Hoover Building? Where would she be held? Also, this character was accompanied by a fourteen year old girl, so what would happen to the girl (her name is Karmii)? Nobody ever knew Karmii was born, so she is not a citizen of any country either. What happens to the original character and to Karmii following the original character's arrest? The original character is named Treali. How much security would surround Treali? How would she be treated? The crimes she is being charged with include dozens of murders and three arsons. I need to know about the procedure following her arrest? How would the FBI view her? How publicized would the arrest be, even if made in seclusion?

ANSWER: Hi Ylanne,
You are the third writer this week to ask questions about criminal procedures! I am beginning to think someone posted my information in a writers blog somewhere. :) I don't mind at all but find it funny that so many writers are asking questions so close together. And I am a writer myself, currently working on a serial killer story line.

Lets answer your questions. When she (your main character)  is arrested she would be taken to the nearest Federal Prison and held until she could be transferred to the Federal Prison in the DC area that holds female prisoners. Since she is a female prisoner, and they are housed only in certain places, she more than likely would be sent to Hazelton United States Penitentiary, The facility is located in the mountains of Preston County, West Virginia, in the community of Bruceton Mills, and is approximately 35 minutes from Morgantown; 45 minutes from Uniontown, PA; and 45 minutes from Cumberland, MD. Questioning would be done there. They have special facilities for interviews and interrogations at these places.

You don't say if the 14 year old girl is a victim, suspect or neither. If she was a suspect in a crime, she would be taken to the nearest county jail facility and then transferred to a juvenile holding facility in the DC area. More than likely one used by the DC police. There are a lot of these.  If she was a victim, she would be taken to the local (where they are arrested) women’s and children’s shelter, and then arrangements made for Foster Care from there.  Since you say she is not a citizen of any country (wouldn't she be a citizen of the place she was born?) then she would be held in a juvenile detention facility until they could figure out her legal status. She would be involved with ICE, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Border Patrol).

As for security surrounding her, it would depend on how dangerous they considered her and if they felt she was an escape risk. If they think her dangerous and a escape risk, she would be surrounded by 3-4 US Marshalls at all times while traveling (US Marshalls do all Federal Prisoner Transporting) . She would be leg shackled and handcuffed to a belt in front of her. More than likely she would be transported on a FBI plane and flown to DC. If she is considered just a medium or general risk, then she would have at least 2 Marshals around her and the handcuffs, leg braces may not be used for that level of prisoner.

She would be treated just like all other prisoners. She would more than likely be held in a cell by herself (danger to other prisoners?) and she would be watched by monitor.

As for the public hearing about it. If the FBI made the arrest in a secluded spot like you say and no one else knew about it. Then there would be little or no press on it. The FBI could very easily keep it quite for as long as they wanted. They would not even have to remove her from the Top Ten list if they did not want anyone to know she had been arrested. On the other hand, if the FBI wanted the press for making the arrest, they would make sure that every media outlet knew about it and then tell them the times she was being moved to allow them to get video and photo shots. It all depends on what the FBI wanted the media to do.

Eventually, if the 14 year old was not a criminal, has no relatives, and no citizenship in another country, she would more than likely end up in foster care. Until her citizenship was decided.

I hope this answers all your questions. If you have any more or need me to clarify or expand on anything I said, please feel free to ask. Make sure you let me know what your book title is an when I can go buy a copy, I love a good mystery/ murder/ crime novel. Stay Safe! And good luck!


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Karmii, the fourteen year old, is Treali's second cousin. Treali's cousin, Alai, had a daughter, Karmii. The three of them lived on a small uncharted island a few hundred miles off the coast of Japan. The island was not part of a sovereign country. Karmii was born there. Alai was killed there. Officially, before Alai's death, Alai owned the island, it was not part of a country, and no one was aware she was pregnant or gave birth, and of course, that Treali was there.

Treali was considered one of the most dangerous people of all time, except for Hitler and bin Laden. She's an interesting character and one of my favorites-mostly because of the creative way she responds to people talking to her-with philosophical riddles, rants and ravings, and more questions. Treali had taken care of Karmii for seven years before the FBI finally found them. This is why Karmii is not a citizen of any country.

Well, Treali has another cousin on the other side of the family, a woman named Jai Qelah Asa. Jai is currently serving time in a federal prison, but she has a criminologist husband and a daughter majoring in psychology at a local university. Would Karmii go to live with Jai's family? They are her closest relatives.

Also, would Treali keep her own clothes? The reason I ask is that Treali is 4'10" in height and I wasn't sure if anything the FBI had would actually fit. How soon would a trial be held? Pretrial hearings? Would they be open to the public? I just need to know more information, even though you've already given me quite a lot. :)

I'm also not sure whether the FBI would want publicity or not for the arrest of Treali. Treali had been on the list for about 45 years at the time of her arrest, and since then, had been widely publicized even in the general public much the same way bin Laden has been. So does this mean the FBI would want people to know about it or not? Also, would there be any way for people to go and speak with Treali, people who are outside of government?

Also, I am writing another novel at the same time, and in that particular novel, a thirteen year old girl is arrested for assassinating the President of the United States. Her DNA was on the murder weapon, she appeared on the surveillance cameras, and was present at the time and place of the murder. How would the FBI proceed in her case? Her name is Lydia. How would the FBI go about making the arrest? As in what time, what place, step by step procedure? Also, would they question Lydia prior to making an arrest? Lydia has a younger sister, two dogs, and two parents and lives in a nice suburb and goes to a charter school. Could they pick her up from school? How might they go about doing that? What kind of security would surround the trial? Surround Lydia?

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer my original question and the new ones. I appreciate it very much.

ANSWER: Hi again Ylanne,
Sorry for the delay in answering you but I wanted to have the time to really sit down and take my time and answer your questions as fully as I could.

Quite a story line you have there, very interesting to say the least! The 14 year old, Karmii would indeed eventually end up with her nearest living relatives. So yes she would go to live with Jai’s family.

As for Treali keeping her own clothes, no as soon as she got to a Federal holding facility she would be changed into a prisoner jumpsuit. They have all sizes and would simply roll up the pant legs if they were too long. As for hearings. She would go before a Federal Magistrate within 24 hours of being arrested, that is where her bond (if any ) would be set. In what you describe, she would get no bond and be held pending trial. I have no doubt. Pretrial Federal hearings are not open to the public. But to cover this and your next few questions, the FBI would more than likely want to make al kinds of publicity on this. It would be sold with the “We always get our criminals” type of ideas I am sure, even if it took so many years. They would more than likely provide video footage of the Pre-trial hearing (it is video taped) and tell the press where and when she was being moved so that they could get their 30 seconds of video footage of her being moved. Just like OJ was video taped from a helicopter just walking from a door about 25 feet and stepping into a van. I don’t know how many times that 20 seconds of  footage was shown.
The only people that would be allowed to speak to her are her lawyers, and if she did not have one, which I am guessing from her situation she did not, then one would be appointed for her. In the Federal system they do not have “public” defenders. They use regular lawyers who agree to take cases and they get paid based on the number of hours they work the case. But because of the importance of this case, I would venture that there would be several lawyers asking to be her attorney just for the publicity it will get.

OK I hope that answers the question on that one.

As for you second set of questions, the 13 year old due to the seriousness of the crime, would be treated as an adult. While the FBI would of course be involved, don’t forget that the Secret Service is a law enforcement organization and if the President was killed, they would be heavily involved in the case and would most assuredly want to be involved in the arrest, a turf thing if you will. If I was to make the arrest, you want to do it in as unpopulated area as you can, not at her school, very bad tactics there. I would probably try and catch her walking to or from school by herself or with just one or two friends or at her home outside playing or something like that. It would make for good reading if she was taken down while walking home from school.

The way it might go is like this: Several unmarked units would be stationed very near-by where she is expected to be. Several (2 or 3 agents) would be watching her from different locations, keeping her in sight all the time. The whole operation would be run from a CP, or Command Post. Where the SAIC (Special Agent in Charge) would make all the calls. Once she leaves school and starts to walk home they would wait until she got somewhere that she could not run and hide very easy. Like the middle of an intersection or a residential sidewalk. The cars would come from different directions and at the last second, tune and block her and the agents would jump out and take her into custody. Quick easy and over in about 10 seconds if done correctly. She would be loaded into one of the cars and then taken to a FBI or SS office where her parents would be contacted. She would not be questioned until she was read her rights, given a chance to have a parent present and of course I am sure, if her parents were smart, they would request a lawyer right away.

As for the security at the trial, it would be very tight, as she supposedly killed a President and there would be some very unhappy people that would want to do her harm I am sure. She would be put in a bullet proof vest and walked with SS and US Marshalls around her all the time. In the courtroom, 4-6 agents at all times I am sure with one or two undercover in the gallery.

OK I hope those answer this set. I hope you have more to ask!


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: I am so sorry, Commander Wagoner, but I have MORE questions, if you can believe it! I really am sorry for intruding so much on your time. More questions concerning Treali: During interrogation, what would the FBI want out of Treali? They know for sure she's committed the crimes she's been accused of, based on DNA evidence, eyewitness accounts, security videos, and even confessions (although very very very vague) in letters she has written. What kind of information would they want? Motives, accomplices (there weren't any, and the FBI is pretty sure of that), what? Also, day to day, who would have access to Treali? Other than her lawyer and the Marshalls, who might be permitted to speak with her or whatever? What happens if WHILE she is being held, more evidence comes in showing that Treali is the one who shot a high-profile political figure only about seven days ago, although the original suspect was someone found dead at the scene of the crime?

Also, in your original answer to my original question, the phrasing "She would be leg shackled and handcuffed to a belt in front of her." is unclear. Are you saying leg shackled as well as handcuffed to a belt in front of her? What kind of belt is this? And here I will point out something on my part: you're right, in my original question I never thought to specify whether Karmii was a victim or a suspect, and I guess I just assumed you would know what I was talking about. I apologize [this is very bad, since I'm a writer and can't assume anything about my readers! :( ] Actually, for seven years, Treali had raised Karmii as her own daughter. And Karmii never knew Treali was a fugitive or a murderer.

BTW, that brings me to my next question. Treali was also wanted in many other countries around the globe. Upon her arrest, would they demand extradition? Only about 10 murders were committed in the U.S, the other hundred or so were committed in various other countries. How would this be taken care of? And also, who would conduct Treali's interrogation? Could a specific agent request to speak with her? What about a high-profile intelligence figure from a foreign country?

And back to Lydia, the other novel I'm working on. [Well actually there's some others, but these two involve law enforcement questions and the other projects don't :) ] Lydia doesn't walk to or from school. Her parents pick her up and drop her off. She also participates in many extracurricular activities, and so is not home a lot. So how then would the arrest be done? Would they go to her house? And you never actually answered one of my questions, sorry. But it's okay. I'll ask again. :) Would they pick her up for questioning before making an arrest? If so, how would they do that? Also during her trial, would her parents be there? Her sister? What about any of her friends and the general public? What kind of security would surround the family? Lydia is one of those well-known in the neighborhood sort of kids, she is a very talented artist, pianist, singer, and actress, and she writes too. She does a lot of community service, and is "famous" in a sort at her school (not popular, just well-known and generally respected).

Would her classmates and school be notified of the arrest and charges? Would her name and/or mug shot be released to the general public? (Would Treali's mug shot?) How might Lydia's school react to the arrest and charges? What kind of security would surround Lydia as all of this is going on? Will she be permitted to speak with her parents? Sister? A counselor? (She probably needs one desperately) Where would she be held? Where might the trial take place? She lives in Boston, MA. Also, Lydia was scheduled to perform in an opera at the time of her arrest and performances were about a month and a half away. What happens to the performance? How would the company react? Be told? She can't perform, can she? Where would Lydia be interrogated, if she lives in Boston? For how long? What would they want from her during interrogation?

I am so so so sorry, for inundating you with so many questions, but ... well I need answers. :) And you're qualified to provide them. :) Thank you so much, for the previous ones and these!

-Ylanne

P.S. Oh wait! One more question. Treali is from a third world country and last had contact with the outside world in 1975. So the year she is arrested is 2013. She has never seen a cell phone, iPod, computer, TV, or anything like that and does not know what a digital camera is, a surveillance camera, a tape recorder, the Internet, or e-mail or anything else knew since then. She never heard of DNA before in her life and English is a second language for her. She is fluent, but her grammar and syntax sound like Shakespeare/the Bible/Yoda. She never even knew that man landed on the moon. Of course, she wouldn't recognize more than half of the equipment that the prison or the FBI would utilize, so what would she do? She doesn't know about running water, heat, or air conditioning, a shower, a bath, a toilet even. What happens? How is this going to go along with her? Will someone have to explain to her what the heck all of this stuff is?

Again, thank you so much Commander Wagoner! You are the BEST volunteer on this site! Good grammar, spelling, English, detailed and personal responses, hands down, you get straight tens across the board. Again thank you.

Answer
Hi again Ylanne,

It’s not a problem with the questions. I am really enjoying the story line that I am seeing developing and think you have a real winner on your hands here. I don’t mind at all so ask away…

Since you have so many questions in this last post, I will answer them in the order you asked them and hope that makes a little more sense to you rather than me jump around a bit.

So here are your questions and my answers:

Q: During interrogation, what would the FBI want out of Treali?

A: The questioning of a suspect in a crime is intended to cover the basics at first. What we call the who, what, when, where, why and how. We try to go chronologically as to the suspects’ actions. We would try and get her to start at the beginning of the time frame we are looking at her for, and ask her to describe the above areas for each crime. The interrogators would use as few words or questions as possible. The idea is to get the suspect talking and then once they get going, let them talk. You would be surprised at how much suspects want to tell you once they feel like you’re listening and letting them talk.

Q: What kind of information would they want? Motives, accomplices, what?

A: The motives are the why part of that answer above, accomplices is the who. So these are covered above.

Q: Who would have access to Treali?

A: Well since she is a Federal Prisoner, she would only have contact with the people at the detention facility, the Agents doing the questioning and working the case, and her attorney(s). She may be allowed to be visited by one or two people, but that would have to be approved by the judge and requested by her attorney. And the visits would be monitored. Also based on what you tell me of the character, she more than likely would be ordered to undergo physical and psychological evaluations prior to trial. This more than likely would have been requested by the US Attorney who is assigned this case. That by the way is the person that would end up prosecuting this case, the US Attorney’s Office.

Q:  What happens while she is being held?

A: On the day to day basis she is fed three times a day, given 1 hour of exercise outside or in a gym type facility. She would be allowed to bath and during any movement inside the holding facility she would more than likely be handcuffed to that belly-belt I told you about. The belly belt is one where it’s a leather belt worn around the waist fastened in the back so the suspect can’t undo it, and their handcuffs are secured to the belt to prevent the suspect from raising their hands above the waist, this is used on the suspects considered dangerous or a high escape risk.
Here is a link to a photo of what I am talking about. You can see the ring on the belt the handcuffs are attached to prevent the raising of the hands.
http://hrw.org/reports/2006/us0906/us0906_files/image001.jpg
http://www.pxdirect.com/images/HR-TransBelt-D-Ring-SM.jpg

Q: She would be leg shackled and handcuffed to a belt in front of her." is unclear. Are you saying leg shackled as well as handcuffed to a belt in front of her? What kind of belt is this?

A: See the answer above.

Q: BTW, that brings me to my next question. Treali was also wanted in many other countries around the globe. Upon her arrest, would they demand extradition? Only about 10 murders were committed in the U.S, the other hundred or so were committed in various other countries. How would this be taken care of?

A: This really would not make too much of a problem. It’s kind of like first come, first serve. Since the US found and arrested her, we would keep her and prosecute her here. The US Department of State might arrange to allow investigators from other countries to talk to her, but she would remain in and probably stay in US custody for the duration. I do not see them letting some other country have her after they caught her and charged her with the serious crimes you say she did. If she was convicted and sentenced, she would serve out her sentence here.

Q: And also, who would conduct Treali's interrogation? Could a specific agent request to speak with her? What about a high-profile intelligence figure from a foreign country?

A: The Agents assigned to the case would be the ones to do the questioning. BUT sometimes, based on the suspect, they may bring in a specialist to interview her. In the case you mention, with all of her issues, this may very well be the case here. They might find a specialist that has dealt with people like this (lack of contact with the world) and let him/her do the questioning. As for an intelligence figure from a foreign country that would not be a problem, but it would be supervised and monitored. Probably both in person and on video. It sounds like your character has some major issues that might affect her ability to communicate with someone not trained in this type of physiological development disorder. If I was handling this case, I would immediately seek the help and advice of a specialist in these types of disorders/ problems. Probably contact the University of Florida (in my city here) and talk with a Doctor in these areas. Maybe get them to help figure out a good way of approaching her questioning and even allow him/her to be present and help me out in framing the questions in a way that would be best received by her.

Q: And back to Lydia, the other novel I'm working on. [Well actually there are some others, but these two involve law enforcement questions and the other projects don't :) ]Lydia doesn't walk to or from school. Her parents pick her up and drop her off. She also participates in many extracurricular activities, and so is not home a lot. So how then would the arrest be done? Would they go to her house? And you never actually answered one of my questions, sorry. But it's okay. I'll ask again. :) Would they pick her up for questioning before making an arrest? If so, how would they do that?

A: If I was planning the arrest I would make it when she was in the car with her parents and away from an area where others were at. Like stop the car on the way to school or on the way to a sports practice. That way fewer people involved. It would be several vehicles surrounding the suspects’ vehicle and simply ordering the out and onto the ground, approach, handcuff and away we go. The parent would not be arrested and allowed to follow us back to the holding facility if that’s what they wanted to do.
As for picking her up for questioning before they arrest her, that is only done if they feel they do not have enough evidence to go with. From the sounds of it, they have what appears to be a lot of evidence to show it was her, so no I would not think they would need to do that.

Q: Also during her trial, would her parents be there? Her sister? What about any of her friends and the general public? What kind of security would surround the family?

A: Yes her parents would be allowed to be in the courtroom, but not at the defendants table with her. Her sister also would be allowed I am sure. As for the general public, they would be allowed but only after being very tightly screened and only so many would be allowed, as I am sure that the press and others would make up the bulk of the gallery in the courtroom. As for security around the family, that would depend. I would think that yes, the FBI would have to assign a few officers to the family for safety reasons before and during the trial. The local police would also be involved in providing a few uniformed officers to assist the FBI in this.

Q: Would her classmates and school be notified of the arrest and charges? Would her name and/or mug shot be released to the general public? (Would Treali's mug shot?) How might Lydia's school react to the arrest and charges?

A: The school and such would not be notified of the arrest or charges other than seeing it in the news I am sure. I would venture to say, even though she is a juvenile, her picture and information would make it into the press. I don’t think they could keep this from happening. As for how would her school react? I am not sure. I guess it would depend on if they thought she did it or not, they may take the stance that they try to distance themselves from her, or they take the other route and try to stick by her and support her. I would think the first would be more the way it would go. What school would want the rap of being the school that supported the Presidents Assassin?

Q: What kind of security would surround Lydia as all of this is going on?

A: Well since she is accused of killing the President, she would be under about as tight a security detail as it gets. She would be surrounded by agents at all times while being transported. She would be required to wear a bulletproof vest, she would be shackled the same way as your other character. Belly belt and leg shackles.

Q:  Will she be permitted to speak with her parents? Sister? A counselor? (She probably needs one desperately)

A: I would think she would be allowed supervised contact with her parents. They would be allowed to touch or hug her, but under very close supervision. This is only because she is a juvenile. An adult would not be allowed this visitation. The court would order a psychologist to interview and be present a lot of the time I am sure. To prevent any kind of problems from arising that were not being monitored.

More than likely she would be held and tried wherever she committed the crime. If she did this in Miami, then the trial would be in Miami, done in the Federal Courts, and she would be held in a Federal Holding facility in Miami or that area. While they do not have facilities to hold juveniles, they would make arrangements to make something at the facility work. They could not and would not let her mix or associate with adults at the facility and she would have to be kept away from contact with anyone not involved in the case.

Q: What happens to the performance? How would the company react? Be told? She can't perform, can she?

A: She would not be allowed to perform. The company I am sure would want to distance themselves from her. As for how they would be told, I would guess her parents would tell them or they would of course see it in the news.

Q: Where would Lydia be interrogated, if she lives in Boston? For how long? What would they want from her during interrogation?

A: She would be questioned where she is being held and where the trial would take place. The length she is held for depends on the Judge and how long it takes the US Attorney to get the case together and ready for trial. Since this is a high profile case, I would say that it would move along fairly quickly, I would guess within a year from time of arrest to time of trial start. As for what would they want, the same thing as I mentioned above for your other character, but this one they would be very interested to make sure that she was acting alone and that would be a lot of what she is asked about.

Q: Of course, she wouldn't recognize more than half of the equipment that the prison or the FBI would utilize, so what would she do? She doesn't know about running water, heat, or air conditioning, a shower, a bath, a toilet even. What happens? How is this going to go along with her? Will someone have to explain to her what the heck all of this stuff is?

A: I would think this would be very difficult for her to understand, but I think the Agents in charge of the case would make sure she had a psychologist or therapist to work with her to help her be able to function with all the new things she would be exposed to. She would be treated by someone who is or has worked with people like this before. A specialist educated in this, maybe someone that works with disabled or handicapped people that need the same kind of training. She would almost be like a high functioning autistic child. I would think the same types of treatments that are given to them would work wither. She would be acting like an autistic person does, and that requires a lot of work and training on the part of a therapist. This could be a very nice sub-plot / topic for your story, how she reacts and is treated for this part of her mental challenges of being confronted by these new things. I know a little about this, my son is autistic.

Well I hope I answered all your questions for you. And I hope the answers make sense! Please feel free to ask all you want. I will try to answer them as best I can. I had a panic attack just a few minutes ago, I typed up the above answer and accidently deleted it! I had to use my computer forensic tools to recover it! But I got it back, whew!

Well these stories sound great. Let me know how things are going and if you have anymore questions, just ask.