Expert: Elder Greg Madden - 3/13/2008

Question
I was raised Protestant(Lutheran),but converted to Catholicism about 20 years ago.  I am in my 50's. I believe that I converted because of a feeling of communion that I got by experiencing the mass. There are many things I do like about the Catholic church, however I have been having some difficulty for some time with a few basics.  I believe firmly as we are all sinners that Are salvation depends on the precious blood of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ alone. The concept of the 'church' being their to aid us does not bother or offend me.  Pastors should be their for that reason. But the concept that the 'church' dispenses salvation is simply one that I;ve never been able to swallow. I had an experience before I joined the Catholic church, in which a Pentecostal faith-fiiled woman prayed over me, with the result that i began to speak in tongues. I   was alive for a time with this new faith, but soon as tribulations came(family deaths mainly), I became unsure of exactly what I believed.  I went back to the Lutheran church for awhile before encoutering a friends of a friend whno invited me to go to the Catholic Catuchemate, with no pressure of joining. As I said I became enamored with the concept of the mass and the feeling of oneness with the body of Christ, and with the church.  It is a very all-encompassing feeling. What is truly bothering me in this concept of salvation only through the church, which is what Catholicism seems to teach, and also the concept of indulgences, and "states of grace'.  According to Catholic teaching as I am sure you know the Catholic church believes that if you are in a state of "serious sin" at any time, and you die without having given confession, then you will go straight to hell.  Of all the Catholic beliefs this is the one that riles me most, and seems to be obiousbly against what the Spirit tells me.  I believe as I said that we are all sinners who have fallen short of the grace of God, and that it is only through true belief in his mercy are we saved.  I do not pray to Saints, and have difficulty praying the Rosary, although I think the idea of a meditative prayer is good. I go to mass every week, although I do also visit other churches from time to time, but I often feel in the Catholic church that I am either going through the motions, or merely aguest.  Do you believe that I can continue to go to the Catholic church without jeopardizing my salvation, even if I believe in Salvation through Grace and Faith alone.  --Troubled in Kansas

Answer
Troubled in Kansas

greetings in the wonderful Name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I do so apologize for my tardy reply. Things have been rather busy here and I am just now getting to your question. Please for give me.

After reading your situation and what you have been through, It does seem to me that you have experienced quite a bit in your life spiritually. Though it did encourage me to read two things.

First, that you beileve in salvation that "depends on the precious blood of Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ alone" an "I believe in Salvation through Grace and Faith alone". This is the most importamt thing that anyone could ever know and believe. However, it is improtant that you understand that a Christian is not a religious person or merely a member of a church; a Christian is one who has been forgiven of his or her sin and has an ongoing personal relationship with God. Not only this, a Christian is someone that Jesus Christ lives in, one that has been born again (John 3.3) and lives in the assurance that Jesus paid the price for them to be right with God and go to heaven  

Secondly that "a Pentecostal faith-fiiled woman prayed over me, with the result that i began to speak in tongues" This is called the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Let me give you a brief explineation of what this is.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit is the empowering for service that takes place in the life of the Christian.

The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a Second encounter with God. The first encounter with God is called as 'conversion' or salvation. Just as the indwelling Spirit reproduces the life of Jesus, the outpoured, or baptizing Spirit reproduces the ministry of Jesus.

To illustrate, if I had a glass of water and took a swallow, then the water would be inside me. If, on the other hand, I went down to the beach and stepped into the ocean, then I would be in the water. We receive, as it were, a drink of the Spirit when we are saved, but when we are baptized in the Spirit, it is as if that initial drink becomes an ocean that completely surrounds us.

The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is a definite experience, not identical with conversion. When the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is received, unknown tongues will follow. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit is given to endue the believer with power from on high; to give and to equip him for a practical, efficient, spirit-filled, soul-winning ministry and service. Inasmuch as this is the dispensation of the Holy Spirit, every believer has a right to expect His incoming to be after the same manner as recorded by the Word of God in Bible days.

Luke 24:49; John 14:16; Acts 1:8; 2:4, 38-39; 10:44 -48, 19:6

Do not think that I am saying you have to speak in tongues to be saved. I am not. The work of the Lord Jesus Christ and the mercy of God bring salvation and the indwelling Spirit, and that does not involve speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues, from all indications in the New Testament, is the consequence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. There was an initial utterance in tongues, bearing witness that the tongue had been sanctified and empowered by God for His use. But speaking in tongues was not necessary for the salvation of those people.

As to the feeling you recieved "...because of a feeling of communion that I got by experiencing the mass..." and with "...the concept of the mass and the feeling of oneness with the body of Christ, and with the church..." These feelings are common to many when the are around any group which is unified in their belif system, and is covinced that they are somehow directed by "divine insperation". I have witnessed such feelings by people who are Mormon, Jehovah Witneess, Muslims, ect... (no, I am not caticorizing Catholithism as a cult, just giving an exsaple of how people can get enamored with a cerain "group" and their so-called unity. Just because a group is unified, does not make them right. Too many make the mistake of thinking the Roman Catholic Church is the one true  church of Jesus Christ. You see if you want to become catholic - and yet by joining  the Church of Rome, you will become "Catholic" in name only  and not in truth. In Christian theology the word  "catholic" describes the entire church of Jesus Christ. The  word "catholic" simple means "universal". All God's  people from every nation and in every era, all who are redeemed by the blood  of Jesus, together form the catholic church.

The Lord Jesus has one universal - or catholic - church. He is the  head, and all the redeemed, born-agian, saved by grace through faith, and washed in the blood of Jesus, are members of His body.

Yes Roman Catholics are unified in their beliefs of the mass, but they are unifed in a false teaching. Let me share with you a few things about the Catholic "means of salvation".

According to the Roman Catholic Church, the salvation of your soul is a long journey through her sacramental system.  On this journey the Roman Catholic Church is clearly the focal point, even defining herself as the fullness of your salvation.  In essence, your salvation can only, if ever, be granted through the Roman Catholic Church.

The Catholic Church’s sacraments are taught to be the necessary means of salvation with “sanctifying grace” seen as residing inside a person and granted to an individual as he or she participates in each sacrament.  As a Catholic, your efforts are always to increase the amount of “sanctifying grace” within you in order to be good enough so that when you die you might be delivered from the judgment of hell and at least to land for a time in purgatory.  

Under Roman Catholic teaching, the assurance of your salvation is never given, even to the most devout.  So coming to terms with your own salvation and honestly dealing with the true author of salvation must not be taken lightly.  You could not be asked a more serious question than this:  “if your were die today where would you spend eternity?”  Where can you find the correct answer?  It is with utmost seriousness that we ask you this. What you really need to know is how will you stand before the all Holy God, guilty or forgiven?  Consider the contrast between the Word of God and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

The Catechism Says:
#824 “It is in the Church that ‘the fullness of the means of salvation’ has been deposited.  It is in her that ‘by the grace of God we acquire holiness.’”

The Bible Says:
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life

The Catechism Says:
#181 “Believing’ is an ecclesial act.  The Church’s faith precedes, engenders, supports and nourishes our faith.  The Church is the mother of all believers.  ‘No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother.’”

The Bible Says:
Ephesians 1:6-7 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace.

The Catechism Says:
#1129  “The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.  ‘Sacramental grace’ is the grace of the Holy Spirit, given by Christ and proper to each sacrament.”

The Bible Says:
I John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Acts 16:31Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The Catechism Says:
#1493 “One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience.”

The Bible Says:
I John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Also, according to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the actual body (flesh), blood, and divinity of Jesus Christ is called down from heaven and miraculously transubstantiated into the Eucharistic wafers. The Holy Bible, however, is explicit concerning the return of Jesus Christ to this world.

The Catechism Says:
Para 1357 … bread and wine which, by the power of the Holy Spirit and by the words of Christ, have become the body and blood of Christ. Christ is thus really and mysteriously made present.

The Bible Says:
Hebrews 10: 10-14 ... we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

The Catechism Says:
Para 1379 …the Church became conscious of the meaning of silent adoration of the Lord present under the Eucharistic species. It is for this reason that the tabernacle should be located in an especially worthy place in the church and should be constructed in such a way that it emphasizes and manifests the truth of the real presence of Christ in the Blessed Sacrament.

The Bible Says:
John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that Christ is sacrificed afresh in the Mass, and that each time the Mass is said, this renewing of His sacrifice adds a bit of merit that can count toward one’s salvation. If the Catechism is to be believed, then each time the Mass is performed, Christ’s work on the cross is present and the work of redemption is carried out. However, the Bible reveals that the work of redemption was a one-time act which was completed when Jesus Christ died on the cross at Calvary.

The Catechism Says:
Para 1364 … "As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which 'Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed' is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out."

The Bible Says:
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost..

The Catechism Says:
Para 1366 The Eucharist is thus a sacrifice because it re-presents (makes present) the sacrifice of the cross, because it is its memorial and because it applies its fruit: [Christ], our Lord and God, was once and for all to offer himself to God the Father by his death on the altar of the cross, to accomplish there an everlasting redemption. But because his priesthood was not to end with his death, at the Last Supper "on the night when he was betrayed," [he wanted] to leave to his beloved spouse the Church a visible sacrifice (as the nature of man demands) by which the bloody sacrifice which he was to accomplish once for all on the cross would be re-presented, its memory perpetuated until the end of the world, and its salutary power be applied to the forgiveness of the sins we daily commit.[187]

The Bible Says:
Hebrews 10-18 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
(http://whateverycatholicshouldknow.com/index.html)

Now to your basic question...

"Do you believe that I can continue to go to the Catholic church without jeopardizing my salvation, even if I believe in Salvation through Grace and Faith alone?"

TIK, I cannot tell you what you should do or not do. This is your decision to make. However, if after reading what I have written and quoted above, I am sure you know how I feel about what you should do. It would be difficult to continue to walk by faith while sitting under such teaching. Don't you agree? My council is that you leave, but you are the one who must make that choice. It is my exsperience that those who feel as you do, and yet stay in the RCC will either yeild to the false doctrines, or completly loose faith. TIK, study these things out for yourself. Seach the Holy Scriptures. Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you in you decision. If you do decide to leave I would be happy to assiste you in anyway I can.

Please let me know if this helps, or if you have any further questions.

Elder Greg Madden
http://www.forministry.com/USOKPENTEMMM1/