Expert: Elder Greg Madden - 5/19/2007

Question
Greetings Elder Greg!  I'm not sure if you remember me or not, but we exchanged a few e-mails earlier this year and I hadn't heard back from you in quite awhile so I thought I would check in again.  I'll reference my latest question, which appears on 1/8/07 - here are the concluding comments/questions I had:

1. I still do not see enough scriptural evidence to prove that the Catholic position cannot possibly be true and is so contrary to authentic Christian teaching that faithful Catholics cannot be saved in their belief system.  I’m not denying that Protestant exegesis of Scripture is completely false and could not possibly be true, but the Catholic position seems to have plenty of convincing support from Scripture for anyone who truly understands Catholic theology.

2.   Furthermore, the case for the Catholic position (re the Eucharist) seems to be strengthened by there being a clear connection between it and how the earliest Christians understood Christ’s words at the Last Supper and in John 6.  Early writings by Ignatius of Antioch (AD 98-117), who likely had direct contact with the apostles Peter and John, Justin Martyr (AD 100-165), and Irenaeus of Lyons (AD 130-202), just to name a few, stressed the value of the Eucharist.  Were these and other early Christians, many of whom had direct contact with or came right after the time of the apostles, completely wrong in their interpretation of Scripture and promulgation of Christian doctrine?

3.   If the Bible never says “by faith alone”, but does say, “not by faith alone” (James 2:24), how can sola fide be true?

4.   There seems to be a perpetual misunderstanding of Catholicism teaching a “false gospel of works.”  Could you explain to me, from an outsider’s perspective, why this belief exists when the Church specifically teaches that works apart from grace are useless.  And, could you comment on the joint declaration on the doctrine of justification, co-signed by the Vatican, Lutheran World Federation, and most recently, the World Methodist Council, which is summarized by this statement: “By grace alone, in faith in Christ's saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works.”  

I'm interested to hear what you have to say regarding these matters, and I hope you are still interested in seeking out the truth with me.

Have a great day and hope to hear from you soon!

Edward

Answer
Dear Edward,

This is Elder Greg Madden, and I wanted to thank you for allowing me the privilege of answering your questions. It has been a while since we lawst communicated, and I just wanted to let you know I have been praying for you. And from my family to yours, I pray that you would have a blessed Thanksgiving Day!

Elder Greg
http://www.forministry.com/USOKPENTEMMM1


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Edward,

First I want to thank you for your patience with me in not answering you. Though I have tried to follow-up with other folks who have asked me questions on this site (I have volunteered for several categories) my work, and church has limited the time I can spend in my reply’s. I say this, because I did not want you to read one of these reply’s and think that I am ignoring you. I am not. Though the issues you bring up
concerning the doctrines of the Roman catholic church will take more of my time to sufficiently answer then most of the other questions I have been asked recently. Long story short...I apologize for the delay in responding.

Now, let me see if I can briefly address the four points you brought up. These will be brief replies. I hope that is alright. I will answer each one in the order you asked them...

1. Edward, the Roman Catholic sacramental scheme is alleged to be
constructed upon the Bible. However, in the Roman Catholic religion, there are other sources of authority equal to the Bible. Hence, proof for the seven Sacraments of Rome does not necessarily need to rest upon Scripture. Rome’s doctrine of Sola Ecclesia (the Church alone)
establishes and defines doctrine.

2. To the Roman Catholic, the Mass is “the re-creation of the moment of Christ’s sacrifice.” This re-presentation of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is augmented by Rome’s insistence that the wafer of bread is transformed into the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. Hence, Rome believes that a piece of bread becomes Jesus and is to be ingested for forgiveness of sins. All this takes place through the power invested into a Roman Catholic priest.

Nothing could be more foreign to the Christian than this. The Bible over and over again asserts that Jesus died one time for all time. Faith in His historical death is all that is necessary for forgiveness of sins past and present and the future.

By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. Hebrews 10:10

For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are
sanctified. Hebrews 10:14

What the early Christian wrote may be debatable, but the Holy Word of God (Bible) is not. The real question is not what the early writer wrote, but what does "thus saith the Lord"?

3. & 4. (I believe this answer will address both of these questions)

The true meaning of "Sola Fide" is that we are saved (born-again) by grace (the unmerited favor of God), and that grace can ONLY be received through faith.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:  
2:9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.  
2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.  

The verse you sited (James 2:24) must be taken in context. Notice the previous verses...

James 2:17
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
2:18
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

The problem with yourself and Rome is that you are saying that one is saved by grace and works. Whereas the Bible teaches us that we are saved by grace, through faith, and this produce evidence (works/fruit). James said show me your faith without works. This is impossible. James gave the example of Abraham, hearing the voice of God, and obeying. Abraham had faith, and that faith is evidenced by his obedience. Such is still true with the Child of God. We have faith, and that faith has
corresponding action. Edward, your problem my friend is that you are putting the fruit before the root! Faith comes first, then works/fruit.

You also said that Rome teaches "...specifically teaches that works apart from grace are useless." This may be true, but Rome does teach that salvation cannot be received without works. This is the problem Edward, the mixing of God's grace with works and mans traditions. Like oil and water, the two will never mix. Whereas the Bible teaches us that salvation is only received by grace through faith.

Edward, perhaps this will help. This is a copy of the "How to become a Christian" page on our personal ministry web site. It is a simple
outline of the Gospel.

A Christian is not just a religious person or merely a member of a church; a Christian is one who has been forgiven of his or her sin and has an ongoing personal relationship with God. Not only this, a
Christian is someone that Jesus Christ lives in, one that has been born again (John 3.3) and lives in the assurance that Jesus paid the price for them to be right with God and go to heaven.

The Good News of Jesus Christ is . . .

1) God loves everyone and wants them all to live forever in His
presence. John 3.16 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

2) We are separated from God by sin. The Bible defines sin as things we do that are displeasing to God. As humans, not only have we done things that displease God, we cannot stop doing those things on our own. This is why the Bible calls us "sinners." Many sincerely believe that
performing good works or religious acts will cause God to cancel out the wrong things that they have done. Spiritual and physical death came into our world because of sin. Physical death is a separation from loved ones on earth; spiritual death is separation from God. Romans 3.23 says, " . . .for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God."

3) Sin brings death. Romans 6.23 tells us that " . . . the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Physical death is separation from loved ones on earth; spiritual death is separation from God.

4) Through Jesus, God has provided the way for us to come to Him and be forgiven of our sins. Romans 5.8 says, "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." God sent His Son, Jesus, to die and pay the price in full for all the wrong things we have done. We no longer have to be separated from God!.

5) We must individually admit to God that we are sinners and in an attitude of repentance, personally ask Him for forgiveness, the free gift of eternal life and to come into to our lives. Romans 10:9,10 says "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall believe in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Its as easy as A.B.C.

A. Acknowledge that you are a sinner in need of forgiveness .
B. Believe that Jesus died for the forgiveness of your sin.
C. Confess Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior.

Edward, once again thank you for your patience, and willingness to discuss this issues. I consider it an honor that you would ask of me these eternally important questions. Let us continue our discussion and see where God's Spirit takes us.

God Bless.

Elder Greg Madden
http://www.forministry.com/USOKPENTEMMM1