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Critics of Jehovah`s Witnesses/Pro-Witness Brenton Continues Jousting
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Question
Andrew I noticed you did some research and added it to my last published question.
Those sites you quote are as misleading as any about JWs because they do not put information in context.
Any one reading our last conversation can contact me on the normal JW list and I will give them the correct view.
JWs have NEVER uttered a prophecy in the modern day understanding of "prophecy"
Generally when one things of a prophet one things of one who tells the future. JWs have never done that. In our zeal to wake people up to the times we are living in and the urgency to make a personal relationship with Jehovah, we have used our understanding of Bible prophecy to earn of what God is going to do.
Unfortunately we have misapplied and or misunderstood some texts that lead to wrong conclusions.
In the Bible times a prophet was one that spoke for another. Bible writers that wrote prophecy did so under the instruction of Jehovah. NO ONE since the days of the apostles has been inspired of God either to speak something new or to interpret prophecy. But if anyone speaks the words of God as written in the Bible they are prophets because they are speaking for God. What we have to determine is who is speaking the truth from Gods Word as his true spokespeople (prophets) and who is telling misleading and wrong information about what God says, eg is God a Trinity, does man have an immortal soul, is there a Hell fire, what is Gods purpose for the earth, how does God want to be worshiped, what does the future hold for mankind, what is required to be in line for salvation, etc
JWs are prophets in the sense we are declaring the warning of Gods coming great and fear inspiring day ... Armageddon... We are looking forward to it and are not afraid of it and we want every one to respond to it. Our message is one of hope as God will bring a change to mankind conditions of sorrow that we have now.
So Andrew, what do you offer as the only hope for mankind?
Dear Brenton,
My area of expertise is using clarity of mind to expose mind games and dishonest manipulations that are used to impair freedom of mind and dissolve family ties. I am not interested in discussing theology. You are free to believe whatever you choose to believe about the nature of God. I'm sure he will answer your prayers if you will open your heart.
On the other hand, you are not free to use mind games and dishonest manipulations without an expose in the world in which I live, because God has empowered me to see through them and shown me that He is Love and you are not.
Your organization claims to hold out "the only hope for mankind". That is a framework in which you prefer to work because you have refused to respond with directness and simplicity to my area of expertise. An organization which uses extraordinarily complex manipulations in order to control it's members does not offer anyone's hope for anything. You suffer a mass delusion that you are "the only hope for mankind". Were it accomplished honestly, I would bless it, for it is a beautiful delusion. Yet like all totalitarian systems, it can only be accomplished by means of mind games and deceptive manipulation, of which I have given many examples over the years.
Your organization claims to serve as a prophet when such claim suits you, and you claim not to be so when it suits you. Regardless of definitions or "senses" of a word, answer simply this: Through what specific communication or act has God himself appointed your organization to the role of spokesman? God has not taken initiative through an observable communication or act to appoint your organization as spokesman, yet your literature is based on the premise and implication that he has done so, falsely claiming authority by means of implied appointment which never occurred.
Your interpretations and body of teachings are no better than anyone else's unless God himself has told you so. Has he?
You claim to speak for God by means of reading the written word, yet fail to recognize your role as the one who has concluded that such written word, the way you frame and interpret it, is God's own. You and your organization are taking initiative in the role of framers and interpreters of the message (for example by claiming 'our times are urgent'), yet characterizing your role as passive or non-existent.
Even if your conclusions are correct, your method is dishonest. Does the God of Truth exclusively support an organization which lies? You do actively frame and interpret, applying your own conclusions, so it is not God speaking, it is you.
How do you determine what is "misleading, wrong information"? When discussing spiritual matters there is no objective way to determine what is correct. Yet what God gives to one in answer to a prayer for guidance is certainly better than contradictory advice your theology gives them. God is Spirit. God is Love. He works not through information exchange but through hearts. It is totalitarian systems like communist governments and cult religions which operate by controlling the flow of information. God doesn't depend on mere "information". Why would he when he can touch hearts?
On the other hand, it is quite possible to identify "misleading, wrong information" when discussing objective factual matters such as organizational politics; which is my only area of concern and expertise. I am not interested in your theology, only your organizational politics, which study yields an abundance of examples of how your literature has provided "misleading, wrong information" to your followers in order to control them and preserve the power of your leadership over them, just as all power-hungry human organizations do. This is what I provided by means of 'those sites I quote' which you call 'misleading'. They are not misleading at all; they simply don't support the rose-colored perception of your organization that you tenaciously cling to in order to protect your false conclusions about it's purity.
In this case you are playing a mind game called "denying the evidence for fear of the conclusion". You are afraid of considering the massive evidence concerning the failures of your organization, because you fear it might lead you to the conclusion God is not really there. Such fear would be legitimate, for God is not there any more than he is anywhere else; yet you have invested so much in believing he is, building every detail of your life around the notion, that it would collapse your faith to find out that God's shekhina light does not actually emanate from Patterson, New York, after all. So why not protect your faith by discontinuing your jousting with me?
I do not wish for anyone's faith to be undermined; but those who place their faith in human organizations instead of God are pretty much asking for it.
I expose mind games and deceptive manipulations which you use abundantly without realizing it for one simple reason: To heal myself and others. The truth has set us free from the tyranny of Witness psychological and social control.
Sincerely,
AndrewXJW
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Andrew
Expertise
I don't object to Witness theology, but rather their use of social pressure & deceptive manipulations to undermine family ties and control minds. (This may seem contradictory to Witnesses, who draw no distinction between spiritual belief and organizational policy.) I do not engage in theological debate. I support persons impacted by an experience with the Witnesses and advocate early education for everyone so that they can protect themselves from cults by understanding what to watch out for. (It's not what most people think.)
(Ex-)Witnesses: I know how upsetting it is to experience doubts (or anger) about your experience. Time does not heal this wound until you first remove the splinter, which takes more time and effort than you may realize. So, unless you have already put in that time and effort, don't be surprised if you are deeply affected long after the experience. But there is good news! You're NOT an enemy of God for doubting or for failing to meet the requirements of a human organization. An organization that lies cannot be the exclusive spokesman for the God of Truth. Tell me where you're at. I'll understand. I can show you how to begin or continue your recovery and make a life for yourself worth living.
Non-Witnesses: Describe your experience with your friend/relative who is (becoming) a Witness. I can help you understand the Witness indoctrination and social dynamics that are affecting him or her. I can help you put your options into perspective. Keep in mind that people do make their own choices (even though they may sometimes do so under outside influence) and you may not be able to affect this person's choices, even though they impact on you. After all, you do not have the arsenal of tactics that a cult does (and wouldn't want to). A few people manage to save their friend/relative, but don't count on it. What you can count on is navigating the maze more successfully by becoming more informed about your own options.
Experience
I was a Witness for 30 years, and a volunteer at their headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, for a year. I have attended meetings with many Witness congregations across the United States, a thorough cross-section, carefully observing patterns of behavior. Although being a Witness was difficult, and I gradually had more and more doubts about Witness teachings--I was a true believer, so I kept trying to make it work somehow. I stopped attending meetings in 1997 only after receiving an answer to a prayer about doing so, and have since been actively involved in recovery. This includes both my own and supporting others in theirs. Recovery can include reading books, communicating with others in recovery, and participating in support groups and/or therapy. It always involves reclaiming one's own mind and discovering the other sides of the issues that you have been blinded to in the past.
My gradual awakening was socially, psychologically, and spiritually tumultuous. I lost everything from my former life. My suffering was substantial.
But I have gained everything, so it was worth it. Only after beginning my recovery did I gain social, psychological, and spiritual healing and growth, peace of mind, and self-respect. Only then did I discover who I am; and--for the first time--the meaning of real brotherly love.
For more resources on this topic, try these web sites:
http://freeminds.org/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomofmind/
Education/Credentials
Like most Cult Recovery Counselors, I am a cult survivor. I have life experience, not professional training. Also I feel no need to apologize for that. People with professional training cannot understand what it is like to survive a cult unless they have been through it themselves, which few professional therapists have. Understanding what really happened and what works in this unusual social context is as important as psychological training. Most professional therapists are not specifically trained to support cult survivors. Those who are represent a rare and precious resource.
I sometimes refer people to professional therapists regarding deep personal issues. But surviving a cult is a broad experience with other dimensions. Professional therapy can be very helpful as part of your recovery process, assuming that you choose the right therapist. When choosing a therapist, remember that you are the client and they are a service provider. You are the one who holds authority about the relationship. You get to interview the therapist and decide which one to employ.
Be sure to ask what specific training and experience they have around recovery from cult mind control. Most therapists do not have relevant training. Some carry serious misunderstandings about what cult mind control is; and therefore will misunderstand your struggle. So it pays to be selective as a consumer of professional therapy services.
Past/Present Clients
The Witness organization is not like other churches. Most non-Witnesses really cannot imagine what it is like to be a Witness. The organization has unimaginably extensive rules and monitoring that affect every aspect of life, so there is no privacy and no sense of personal independence. "Independent thought" is considered their greatest "sin".
The organization insists on absolute conformity, and claims to directly represent God; so dissent is not tolerated, and authority is totalitarian. Being a Witness is more like living in China or the former Soviet Union than being a member of a religion as you know it. It was the research of Robert J. Lifton, who was studying--not religions--but totalitarian governments, who first began to illuminate the problem of religious cults around the world, which employ exactly the same tactics as totalitarian governments. His work remains a cornerstone for Cult Recovery Counselors still today. (This may be why many governments are tolerant of cults, to avoid exposing their own control tactics.)
Witnesses often experience unusually dysfunctional lives and an extensive array of personal problems stemming from broken family ties, stunted social development, inner unrest resulting from repressed doubts, inability to defend boundaries, and an extreme, persistent feeling of irrational shame. I can help people impacted by an experience with the Witnesses by revealing in detail the policies and social dynamics in the Witness organization that cause these problems.
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