AboutAndrew Expertise I don't object to Witness theology, but rather their use of social pressure & deceptive manipulations to undermine family ties & control minds. (This may seem contradictory to Witnesses, who draw no distinction between spiritual belief & organizational policy.) I do not engage in theological debate. I support persons impacted by an experience with the Witnesses & advocate early education for everyone so that they can protect themselves from cults by understanding what to watch out for.
(Ex-)Witnesses: I know how upsetting it is to experience doubts (or anger) about your experience. Time does not heal this wound until you first remove the splinter, which takes more time & effort than you may realize. So unless you have already put in that time & effort, don't be surprised if you are deeply affected long after the experience. But there is good news! You're NOT an enemy of God for doubting or for failing to meet the requirements of a human organization. People who lie cannot represent a God of Truth. Tell me where you're at. I'll understand. I can show you how to begin or continue your recovery & make a life for yourself worth living.
Non-Witnesses: Describe your experience with your friend/relative who is (becoming) a Witness. I can help you understand the Witness indoctrination & social dynamics that are affecting him or her (which are probably not apparent to you). I can help you put your options into perspective. Keep in mind that people make their own choices, & you may not be able to affect this person's choices, no matter how much they impact on you. A few people manage to do so, but don't count on it.
Despite my struggle to recover from my experience with the Witnesses, it was worth it. I will never let anyone cloud my clarity of mind again. Let me use that clarity to help you gain clarity. You deserve it. Every living thing deserves truth, compassion, discovery, and wonder; not manipulation, judgementalism, dogma, or control.
Experience
I was a Witness for 30 years, and a volunteer at their headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, for a year. I have attended many congregations across the United States, carefully observing patterns of behavior. Although being a Witness was difficult and I gradually had more and more doubts about Witness teachings, I was a true believer, so I kept trying to make it work somehow. I stopped attending meetings in 1997 only after receiving an answer to a prayer about doing so, and have since been actively involved in recovery, both my own, and supporting others in theirs. Recovery can include reading books, communicating with others in recovery, and participating in support groups and/or therapy. It always involves reclaiming one's own mind and discovering the other sides of the issues that you have been blinded to in the past.
The Witness organization is not like other churches. Most non-Witnesses really cannot imagine what it is like to be a Witness. The organization has unimaginably extensive rules and monitoring that affect every aspect of life (so there is no privacy and no sense of personal independence).
The organization insists on absolute conformity, and claims to directly represent God; so dissent is not tolerated, and authority is totalitarian. Being a Witness is more like living in China or the former Soviet Union than being a member of a religion as you know it. It was the research of Robert J. Lifton, WHO WAS STUDYING TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT BEHIND THE IRON CURTAIN, that first began to illuminate the problem of totalitarian cult religions around the
world.
Witnesses often experience extremely dysfunctional lives and problems including broken family ties, stunted social development, inner unrest resulting from repressed doubts, inability to defend boundaries, and an extreme, persistent feeling of shame for no apparent reason. I can help people impacted by an experience with the Witnesses by revealing in detail the policies and social dynamics in the Witness organization that cause these problems.
My gradual awakening was socially, psychologically, and spiritually tumultuous. I lost everything from my former life. My suffering was epic.
But I have gained everything, so it was worth it. Only after beginning my recovery, I gained social, psychological, and spiritual healing and growth; I gained peace of mind; I gained self-respect; I discovered who I am; and for the first time I discovered the meaning of real brotherly love.
Expert: Andrew Date: 7/3/2008 Subject: A Thinly-Veiled Witness Advocate Attacks
Question
Sir,
As a person who has family members that are Jehovah Witness I have to disagree with some of your statements.
I have an older brother and his wife and daughter, as well as an aunt who are Jws as well as working with several over the years. My brothers wifes family also has some JW members and some ex JWs. My brother was kicked out twice and returned, my aunt first accepted JW teachings about 50 years ago. She too was kicked out and stayed out for about 30 years and is now one again. I have asked them about some of the things you say as well as borrowed their Watchtower Library cd to examine some of the tings you say so that I could try to understand why they returned to that way of life. I asked if they felt victimized for being kicked out and they said no. My brother spent some time in jail after he was removed form his congregation, and my aunt married a none JW while she was not a JW
I have found their theology interesting and attended several meetings. I find their way of life to difficult for me to follow.
I want to know why you have such an animosity toward them, even going to the point of changing the question they sent you. For example on the 3rd of June a person by the name of Joshua sent you a message and you obviously changed his question to “An example of Witness desperation to control”. That is an obvious tactic by you to discredit Joshua and his beliefs. I also noticed down the page you did the same thing to Brenton with these changed questions which are obviously from you “Compulsive Brenton” and “Pro-Witness Brenton Continues Jousting”. I must say that the wordings made me want to read the questions and reply that you gave.
Well back to what I wanted to say. You make a statement that from an out sider I find untrue.
“I say things such as "Witnesses cut off family members from one another". I have never found this to be fact with my brother or aunt in every day matters . They have maintained contact with family. When my brother was ousted he still had contact with his married daughter and he husband who are missionaries and worked in a JW bethel. It was limited contact he says. He did tell me there was a condition on it and that was not to discuss bible topics or JW theology with them and not overly socialize. He did not find that to be a negative thing at all. A JW I worked with that had been kicked out still had contact with his parents so that they could see their grand children.
Especial wanted to comment on what you said about Gods love being unconditional. I asked about that and was shown from the Bible that Gods love is conditional. I can not remember the passages they showed me (not from their Bible either) that God demands obedience from those that follow him. I asked about his death, well the death of Jesus and is not that unconditional love as he supposedly died for all of mankind. It was explained that was true he did die for all of mankind but they showed me that as individuals we have to believe and take action. Believing was not enough so to get on the good side of God we had to do what he asks of us. Now for anyone that wants to believe the Bible as Christians claim then that is clear in the bible.
I have come to the conclusion that you really do not believe the Bible as being the word of god and that OK with me, your motive seems more of wanting to get even for some hurt you have toward your time as a JW.
So why do you change the questions some JWs ask you?
Why do not not let JWs point out where they feel you misrepresent them with out jumping down their throats?
I am sure if some JW wanted to try to correct what they see as misrepresenting them as my experience with them tells me you do with just the couple of things I investigated you would respond in a negative way. The person known as Debra gives fair and un-confrontational answers and it would be nice to see you answer in the same manner.
There a a few JWs on the other board that are as rude and arrogant as you can be, and I have no time for them. But there are a couple that do their best to keep things civil.
Answer Dear Howard,
> As a person who has family members that are Jehovah Witness
> I have to disagree with some of your statements.
I too have family members who are Jehovah's Witnesses.
It's OK for you to believe whatever you want about spiritual matters. It matters not whether we agree, because your faith is for you to discover and there is no human authority to tell you differently than you have discovered for yourself.
However, in the subject area of cult mind control, that is, the social and mental dynamics practiced by Jehovah's Witnesses and other organizations, an objective matter not dependent on personal discovery, an objective truth does exist, and human authorities do exist, those who have researched and experienced and uncovered them more fully.
If you haven't observed some of the things others have observed, does that mean they are not there? Or rather, does it not mean that you simply have not observed what others have observed? When different people observe different things due to different experience, does that mean one of them have had a false experience? Or rather does it not mean that the overarching truth is something greater than both experiences, and one has to consider all experiences and all viewpoints in order to glimpse the overarching truth?
> I have asked them about some of the things you say as well as
> borrowed their Watchtower Library cd to examine some of the
> tings you say so that I could try to understand why they returned
> to that way of life. I asked if they felt victimized for being
> kicked out and they said no. My brother spent some time in jail
> after he was removed form his congregation, and my aunt married a
> none JW while she was not a JW
Cult researchers would say that cult members are not aware of the system of deception which holds them captive. I would say that it is not possible to be aware of the nature of cult mind control and yet be held captive to a cult, because by becoming aware of how cults work, you innoculate yourself against the controlling tactics that cults use.
Notice that you asked those who are subject to cult mind control about things they cannot possibly know. One cannot come to understand the tactics of cult mind control until after one begins the process of recovery. It is clear from your story that your relatives have not begun the process of recovery, so they cannot give you an objective assessment of their situation, because they are deeply deceived.
Cult mind control is a system which controls people, deconstructs their core personality, deconstructs their sense of personal will, inhibits their critical thinking (logical) faculties, influences them to stop looking at issues from all perspectives and instead see only one limited perspective, makes them repeat cult dogma thousands of times until they begin to believe the dogma is their own, tells them they will like being controlled in such a way and should like it, and they come to believe it.
So OF COURSE your relatives would not recognize they are being victimized. Cult members never do--until it's too late for them or until they begin their recovery. Such lack of recognition is a hallmark of the cult experience, and the reason it is such an insidious problem in the world.
Yet, when subjected to such tremendous suffering as your two relatives who had to endure great shame and shunning, being socially cut off from all their friends, their only community, having to eat crow for months on end which further breaks the spirit, yet willingly pursuing such a course because of the belief that they otherwise become enemies of God--this is a powerful indicator that they are under an outside influence, because free people do not subject themselves to such suffering willingly.
> I have found their theology interesting and attended several
> meetings. I find their way of life to difficult for me to follow.
(Edit: Here Howard pretends that he has only a passing interest, but he later reveals himself to be decidedly an advocate of the Witnesses.)
Theology is something you should be free to explore without coercion. I have no objections to Witness theology, but only to the fact that you cannot attend their meetings nor associate with them without being insidiously coerced.
Normal people do not willingly embrace difficult ways of life unless they are under extraordinary control by mental and social dynamics. So your observation of their difficult life style is an indicator that something unseen is at work motivating the people who are not yet motivated to do what you find too difficult.
> I want to know why you have such an animosity toward them
I have no animosity toward Witnesses or other living beings. What I have is a moral objection to coercion. That includes indignation. I have a mission to use the insight God has given me to promote freedom and truth, because freedom and truth are God's way, control and deception (as practiced by the Witnesses) are not.
> even going to the point of changing the question they sent you.
> For example on the 3rd of June a person by the name of Joshua sent
> you a message and you obviously changed his question to “An example
> of Witness desperation to control”. That is an obvious tactic by you
> to discredit Joshua and his beliefs. I also noticed down the page
> you did the same thing to Brenton with these changed questions which
> are obviously from you “Compulsive Brenton” and “Pro-Witness Brenton
> Continues Jousting”. I must say that the wordings made me want to
> read the questions and reply that you gave....So why do you change
> the questions some JWs ask you?
I never change the seeker's question, nor try to make it appear that the seeker wrote something he did not. I have changed subject lines to more accurately reflect the content of the messages as I see it (even as I have done on this message). This is not an indication of "animosity". Rather it indicates that I hold a very different perspective about what underlies the message than the questioner holds. There is nothing dishonest nor improper about me writing subject lines as I see fit in my own column. And I have given reams of evidence for why I see things as I do. It is up to you, after considering all sides, to synthesize the perspectives and arrive at the truth you will see fit to embrace. (Edit: It is not possible to arrive at truth nor even consider all sides if one has decided in advance what to believe before opening his mind to multiple perspectives, as Howard later reveals he has done.)
> Well back to what I wanted to say. You make a statement that from an
> out sider I find untrue.
> “I say things such as "Witnesses cut off family members from one
> another". I have never found this to be fact with my brother or aunt
> in every day matters . They have maintained contact with family.
I'm glad my statement was untrue IN YOUR CASE. I hope it never becomes true IN YOUR CASE. It is already true in the case of many other persons. Notice that you are not and have never been a Witness. Witnesses would be expected to treat you differently than family members who are former Witnesses, because of the hope that you might eventually join them.
If Witnesses do not cut off family members from one another, then how can we explain the thousands of first-hand accounts of people who say they have been cut off from their families because their Witness relatives will no longer speak to them or because their Witness relatives poisoned the relationship?
> When my brother was ousted he still had contact with his married
> daughter and he husband who are missionaries and worked in a JW
> bethel. It was limited contact he says. He did tell me there was a
> condition on it and that was not to discuss bible topics or JW theology
> with them and not overly socialize.
"Not overly socialize" with his own daughter? And this does not impact their family relationship?
> He did not find that to be a negative thing at all.
Because he is mentally conditioned and socially manipulated to find it so.
> A JW I worked with that had been kicked out still had contact
> with his parents so that they could see their grand children.
I have seen such scenarios, such as between the grandparent and your coworker's children. The grandparents take the children for a weekend, immerse them in Witness mind while they are together in the hope the children will choose the Witness lifestyle. If the parents do not agree, the grandparents try with subtlety and guile to turn the children against their parents "for the child's own sake"; yet the grandparents barely speak to their own children, creating an extraordinarily strained atmosphere between grandparent and child, far from healthy family relations, which the grandchildren cannot help but notice and model after.
I ask you--when a child sees his grandparent treat his own mother and father as lepers, what lesson does he take away from that? Does he not learn that when he is grown, he should expect his own parents to treat him the same? Such scenarios are toxic to family relations, often to the point where those on the receiving end of the shame themselves cut off the family ties in order to free themselves from the toxicity.
So it is not always the Witnesses who cut off family ties. Sometimes the Witnesses just poison family relationships to the point that normal non-Witnesses have to cut off family ties in order to free themselves from toxic shame. Yet it is always the Witnesses who introduce the shame and coercion into family relationships, because they are taught to do so by their organization, making normal healthy family relations impossible. Even where Witnesses themselves do not terminate the relationship (as they sometimes do), they are still responsible for the death of the relationship because of having poisoned it.
Even you are being coerced, albeit gently, by your family, because they hope you will join them.
> Especial wanted to comment on what you said about Gods love
> being unconditional. I asked about that and was shown from the
> Bible that Gods love is conditional. I can not remember the
> passages they showed me (not from their Bible either) that God
> demands obedience from those that follow him.
It does not surprise me that the Witnesses showed you a bible passage which supposedly proved that God's love is conditional. Yes, they teach that. Yes, they teach that unconditional love is wrong. You have supported what I said by relating this experience.
Notice that you asked the Witnesses for their perspective and they gave it, and you have asked me for mine, and I give it. Surely you are not expecting the perspectives to harmonize, are you? They are seeing one side of the mountain, and I am seeing the other. You must sythesize together the two perspectives and decide what the mountain looks like in 3 dimensions.
> I have come to the conclusion that you really do not believe
> the Bible as being the word of god and that OK with me, your
> motive seems more of wanting to get even for some hurt you have
> toward your time as a JW.
Whether I believe the Bible is immaterial to my subject area, freedom of mind and family integrity. Does one have to meet criteria of expertise in biology in order to prove expertise in glassmaking? Of course not.
I am an expert on the social and mental dynamics used by cult organizations such as Jehovah's Witnesses. You believe you have countered an argument about mental and social dynamics by pointing out religious doctrine. These are somewhat unrelated subjects, are they not?
I believe the Bible is a helpful guide that has helped millions to achieve grace and connection with God. I do not believe it to be the literal word of God, for what little my belief matters. If they show you a verse that "proves" leaves are not green, it would not matter to me. If they show you a verse that "proves" God is not unconditional love, that does not matter to me either.
> Why do not not let JWs point out where they feel you misrepresent
> them with out jumping down their throats?
Should I give an unbiased view in my column? Should I give equal time to alternative views? The Witnesses certainly do not, yet you hold me to a higher standard? The Witnesses prohibit their members from reading material that contradicts them. They prohibit their members from speaking to people who contradict them. They try to control the flow of information so that their members will see only their side of the story. They exercise absolute control over tens of millions of lives, people who have few opportunities to hear the other side of the story.
Yet you expect me, one of those few opportunities for them, to be unbiased and give equal time to alternative views? I am not equal minded. The truth is better than falsehood. Opening the eyes is better than closing them. Freedom of mind is better than mental captivity. Grace is better than social manipulation.
> I am sure if some JW wanted to try to correct what they see
> as misrepresenting them as my experience with them tells me
> you do with just the couple of things I investigated you
> would respond in a negative way.
Witnesses are not capable of correcting me, because they have seen only one side of the mountain and I have seen both. They would have to walk around to my side of the mountain (which they are not willing to do) before they would be capable of correcting me. I speak with authority on my area of expertise, which is proper. That is not negative, although it is surely unpleasant for Witnesses and those favorable toward them to hear that their mountain is not so pure a picture as they paint. It is better to hear a bitter truth than sweet lies. So to the extent I am negative, I do not mind.
> The person known as Debra gives fair and un-confrontational answers
> and it would be nice to see you answer in the same manner.
> There a a few JWs on the other board that are as rude and arrogant
> as you can be, and I have no time for them. But there are a couple
> that do their best to keep things civil.
How is it you have time for me but not them? Civility is not my aim. Exposing the truth is my aim, so the observer can hear the truth. I am in a unique position to be able to share what I can. I would be hiding my light under a bushel basket not to do so.
____
Notice how Howard, throughout his message, pretended to be a non-Witness neutral party, implying that he has the objectivity to see the matter clearly without having it colored by Witness advocacy.
Yet gradually he disclosed that he was an advocate of the Witnesses, and only in the last paragraph did he finally accomplish the purpose of his message--to release a bilious character attack. Resorting to character attack rather than discussing the issue is what people do when their argument is weak, and it is a very common behavior among Witnesses. Perhaps Howard is more influenced by the Witnesses than he has let on.
For whomever is interested in freedom of mind and family integrity, I urge you to teach yourself and teach your children the tactics of cult mind control and the dangers of totalitarian coercion before it is too late for you, or too late for them. Among the best sources of such teaching are books by George Orwell, including "Animal Farm" and "1984".
Some will benefit themselves by seeing the truth and avoiding the pitfall, or finding their way out of the pit. That makes my efforts here worthwhile to me, even though I occasionally come under attack by Witness advocates.
