Expert: Andrew - 8/2/2008

Question
QUESTION: Since you now believe JWs are false just curious where do you go for worship? To the churches of Christendom? or I suspect you don't go anywhere in any event the scriptures are plain on the subject of worship.


(Hebrews 10:25) . . .not forsaking the gathering of ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing near.

So where do you go to meet with fellow believers?

Or is it your mission to just prevent others from learning the truth because you were a disaster and was removed.

Many think they left Jehovah's visible organization on their own,but you didn't come on your own you had to be drawn to Jehovah's Organization ,or be invited so people don't leave own their own God removes them by means of his angels.


ANSWER: Dear Anonymous,

Thank you for making your question public so that others can benefit from reading it.

My method in responding to you is to employ my vision to see beyond the superficial message and maze of mind games employed by the private and collective unconscious, to the simple truths beyond, so that people can make their own decisions about what I see there.

I do this with the wish of exercising all the compassion I can, both for you and those you impact upon. I'm sorry if my response feels like a personal affront. I do not mean it so. But I do believe my response will be more healing for the human race than harmful, even if it does not feel that way to you personally.

> True religion

The obsession with "true religion" is an aspect of black and white thinking. It is a hallmark of fundamentalism to think that everything that matters can be neatly categorized into polar opposites such as pro-God and anti-God. Most cult organizations are fundamentalist, but not all fundamentalists are cult organizations; so this is only a secondary cult issue.

I believe real life, and real spirituality, is not marked by black/white, either/or, polar and boolean type decisions. I believe real life and real spirituality are more about depth and texture and experience, and that faith cannot be intellectualized; and that which can be intellectualized is not faith.

> Since you now believe JWs are false just curious where do
> you go for worship? To the churches of Christendom? or I
> suspect you don't go anywhere in any event the scriptures
> are plain on the subject of worship.

"Christendom" was a word used in the middle ages to represent the western world dominated by Christianity, as opposed to the heathen lands were Christianity was not yet found. Among Witnesses, the word represents the collective of "false", non-Witness Christian religions, and personified by a whore; since the Witnesses teach the whore of the bible book of Revelation directly represents that collective. So where he asks whether I attend a "church of Christendom", he is using Witness jargon which implies I have chosen spiritual association with a whore instead of God.

It doesn't matter where I go for worship, for two primary reasons:

1) I do not represent myself as an example to be followed with respect to my spiritual practices. Your raising the issue of my church attendance smacks of the Witness tactic to erode a message by attacking the messenger because you lack the capacity to disprove the message itself. However, in honest straightforward thinking, one recognizes that the veracity of my message is not measured by virtue of the speaker's moral standing. Rather, the veracity of my message is confirmed by my readers by comparing what I say with what they already know, and with information they can freely obtain from many sources.

2) I generally do not involve myself in discussions on spiritual beliefs. It is not my area of expertise. Rather my area of expertise is freedom of mind and family integrity, which are severely impaired due to the organizational policies (not spiritual teachings) of Jehovah's Witnesses. It is only because you cannot distinguish between your organizational policies and your spiritual beliefs (that is, that you equate organizational policy statements as divine-inspired spiritual teachings) that you take a political critique as if it were a spiritual affront. The inability to distinguish between organizational policy and spiritual beliefs is evidence of having been conditioned to treat a human organization as if it were God.

> (Hebrews 10:25) . . .not forsaking the gathering of
> ourselves together, as some have the custom, but encouraging
> one another, and all the more so as YOU behold the day drawing
> near.

There is no human spiritual authority here who can interpret the "proper" way to understand this verse, or whether there is only one proper way. There is no human political authority here who can decide for all that the bible is a standard that must be followed by all persons in order to deserve life. (Yes, Witnesses teach that those who do not accept the bible as the direct and literal word of God [and interpret it their way] deserve death.)

In an open society, people decide for themselves what holy books to embrace, and how to apply the wisdom found therein to their lives. Without an open society, there can be no true spirituality, which is innately graceful and free. Fundamentalism squashes spirituality.

> So where do you go to meet with fellow believers?

It does not matter, for the same two reasons presented above.

> Or is it your mission to just prevent others from learning
> the truth because you were a disaster and was removed.

I hope everyone can hear the truth, not only the partial truth that you promote, but all of it. Not the closed logic meant to point smugly to only one possible answer; but open honest logic with humility that points to wonders beyond human understanding.

I have no fear of any argument you might bring to me, because I have heard even more of your arguments than you have; and because, as a partial truth I have already fully explored, it does not threaten me. I hope our readers will be armed with a more complete truth, and therefore innoculated against the partial truths and attendant deceptions you disseminate.

You fear and oppose me because your system of control is dependent on preventing people from making fully informed decisions. This is why the power of cults is diminishing in the Internet age. I am helping the power of cults diminish so that more people can make fully informed decisions, which is consistent with the universal law of freedom and true spirituality.

> you were a disaster and was removed.

This is a character attack. My character must be defective, I must be subhuman, in your mindset, because any creature whose eyes you could look into and view as your fellowman could not possibly say your "organizational mother" is a liar. I am subhuman to you because I oppose your church; yet when you eventually discover her lies, persons such as myself will become human again to you.

May all people be human to each other; so that all are fellowmen of goodwill, free to be who they really are without shame or judgement or manipulation.

> Many think they left Jehovah's visible organization
> on their own,but you didn't come on your own you had
> to be drawn to Jehovah's Organization ,or be invited
> so people don't leave own their own God removes them
> by means of his angels.

God does not have a human corporation as "his visible organization". There is no evidence whatsoever to support the insistent Witness claim that the Watchtower Society (their corporation) is a direct and unique extension of a hierarchy extending through the clouds and presided over by God himself. If God has any visible organization, it is the entire universe, not one human corporation.

What a beautiful/ugly context in which to perceive the coming and going of people into and out of the Witness organization, that people come only when drawn by God (since obviously the Watchtower Society is the hub over which God himself presides) and that people go only when God (who "is Love") vomits out and abandons his own creation.

This mythological context does not allow for human error, such as the human error that occurs when cult mind control tactics are used during times of weakness (such as a recent death in the family) to erode the critical thinking faculties of new recruits, when people are prevented from making fully informed decisions during the initial gradual exposure to Witness mind through half truths, nor the hate that is practiced in God's name when individuals are cut off from the only community and circle of friends they ever knew, after being socialized unable to make new friends elsewhere; when families are torn apart--destroying lifetimes--upon the expulsion of individuals who do not meet the Witness Pharasaic talmud.

May all persons have an opportunity to make a fully informed decision about their association with Jehovah's Witnesses (and it's consequences on their families and their own minds) before they are gradually and insidiously submerged in it by the deceptive JW proselytization process; for free will choice is a universal law which is otherwise violated.

I participate in this outreach so as to prevent other people from being wounded by the Witnesses as I have been, to help heal those who already have been, and to reduce the suffering of the world caused by deception and hate.

Love and blessings,
AndrewXJW

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Just as I thought you go no where for worship remember I said:
" I suspect you don't go anywhere"

People like you are disgruntled and unhappy as to their experience with Gods visible organization,so they know the churches of Christendom are false so only the only course left is to try to prevent others from learning the truth.


>>>>What a beautiful/ugly context in which to perceive the coming and going of people into and out of the Witness organization, that people come only when drawn by God (since obviously the Watchtower Society is the hub over which God himself presides) and that people go only when God (who "is Love") vomits out and abandons his own creation>>>.


This is scriptural as to God drawing people to his visible organization.


(John 6:44) 44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him. 

So one can't stumble into his visible organization he has to be called.

And the converse is true:

(Matthew 22:14) . . .For there are many invited, but few chosen. . .


>>>>>In an open society, people decide for themselves what holy books to embrace, and how to apply the wisdom found therein to their lives. Without an open society, there can be no true spirituality, which is innately graceful and free. Fundamentalism squashes spirituality<<<<<

This is true its a decision we make but in the end if the wrong one is made the consequences will mean death.


(Proverbs 16:25) . . .There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward.

I'm opposed to you because you station yourself as a expert on Jehovah's Witnesses,it don't matter how much you think you know ,you know nothing ,you are out of the loop so to speak.

(Matthew 25:28-29) . . .Therefore TAKE away the talent from him and give it to him that has the ten talents. 29 For to everyone that has, more will be given and he will have abundance; but as for him that does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.. 

So you don't know as much about Jehovah's Visible organization as you think.










ANSWER: Dear Anonymous,

> Just as I thought you go no where for worship remember I said:
> "I suspect you don't go anywhere"

I have chosen not to discuss my church attendance; which neither indicates nor counterindicates my attendance habits. You are stretching.

> People like you are disgruntled and unhappy as to their experience
> with Gods visible organization,so they know the churches of
> Christendom are false so only the only course left is to try to
> prevent others from learning the truth.

You need to be able to contextualize my behavior in a way that makes sense to you. That is understandable. However your stretch to contextualize things within your own psyche does not represent me, it represents you.

God does not have a visible organization, so it is not possible for me to be disgruntled with it. I have in the past been severely wounded by men pretending to speak for God (who irreparably destroyed my family and injured me severely using deceptive mind games with themselves and others); so now I seek to prevent others from being wounded similarly. This is good citizenship. Every living being is expected to do the same, and by so doing, reduce the suffering in the world.

I know no such thing about "churches of Christendom". They are no more "false" than your church--that boolean labelling is your own. Most of the other Christian churches do not use extensive networks of deception as yours does (which I have elaborated in detail).

>> In an open society, people decide for themselves what holy books
>> to embrace, and how to apply the wisdom found therein to their
>> lives. Without an open society, there can be no true spirituality,
>> which is innately graceful and free. Fundamentalism squashes
>> spirituality

> This is true its a decision we make but in the end if the wrong one
> is made the consequences will mean death.

Your interpretation of what "means death" and what scriptural verses might apply to the conversation do not take precedence over the general public. They take precedence for you. Your scope of application is amiss. I am not interested in your interpretations of scripture. If you have any facts about Watchtower policy which you think I may have missed, by all means present them.

> I'm opposed to you because you station yourself as a expert
> on Jehovah's Witnesses,it don't matter how much you think you
> know ,you know nothing ,you are out of the loop so to speak.

It is not possible to be an expert on anything until you have examined it from all sides. I have examined the issues we have discussed from all sides having been a Witness for 32 years and a Bethelite, and having then worked for many years on my recovery process to remove pro-Witness bias from myself and understand how your cult tactics work.

Your organization prohibits you from examining all sides because "the other side of the story" is a threat to their idealogical house of cards. Thus reading what you would call "apostate" literature (or speaking to someone who has been expelled in order to get their side of the story) is the greatest offense you can commit against your church.

This more comprehensive view makes me the expert and you willingly uninformed about the topic at hand.

Best wishes,
AndrewXJW

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: You only exist to destroy not to heal and save,if I'm lost what alternative do you offer,what is it that you offer.

From reading your responses if I asked you for directions in your town all you would do is confirm that I'm lost not direct me to my destination.

All it seems you are doing is not offering hope but despair.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience in Gods visible organization.


>>Most of the other Christian churches do not use extensive networks of deception as yours does<<<

For the benefit of those who read this public forum what deception is the Watchtower Organization engaged in.

You are not dealing with a young girl at your door just offering the Watchtower and Awake ,YOU ARE BEING EXPOSED
AS A LIAR.

I could care less if you never set foot in another Kingdom Hall ,I exist for those who are deceived by people [Dogs as the bible says]like you ,I defend the Watchtower to the death and given time can expose you and anyone else on this board as liars.

Up until now you have had free reign telling lies about Mother now you are on notice!

Answer
Dear Anonymous,

> You only exist to destroy not to heal and save, if I'm lost what
> alternative do you offer, what is it that you offer.

You seem to be asking, "If this is not the true religion then what is?" Sometimes it is the question that is wrong, not the answer.

Perhaps it is the obsessive search for an answer, without willingness to ask new questions, that creates the problem. Perhaps it is the obsessive need to know the unknowable that causes certain people to accept the word of man as if it were the word of God. Perhaps it is the desperate desire to be childlike before God that makes us become childlike before men pretending to represent God. Perhaps God expects us to grow up and live up to the real potential he created within us, for we are made in God's image; rather than allow well-meaning men to dominate us.

Among the alternatives I offer are:

1) You can have a more whole and integrated soul by accepting yourself for who you are rather than allowing yourself to be shamed and distorted by a social movement which illegitimately claims authority to speak for God.

2) You can preserve your family, and have this most valuable social container in which to be valued, loved, supported, and accepted for who you are for a lifetime without shame or judgementalism by avoiding a misguided social movement which illegitimately claims authority to speak for God.

3) You can avoid giving and receiving injury by exercising scrupulous honesty and clarity of mind rather than "justifying" unjust means via desired ends and playing elaborate mind games on yourself and others.

4) You are a beloved child of God, and nothing you can ever do can change that, for God is Love, so shame and desperation to earn God's approval are meaningless to God, and engineered by men in order to control you. Knowing this will set you free.

> From reading your responses if I asked you for directions in your
> town all you would do is confirm that I'm lost not direct me to my
> destination.

Sometimes you have to actually admit you are lost before you can begin to ask for directions.

> All it seems you are doing is not offering hope but despair.

If your only hope is finding a way to make a sinking ship float, then you will hear despair in my words. If you are willing to look beyond the sinking ship, you will discover there is an empty lifeboat within swimming distance, and that is hope. It may not be as elegant as the Titanic, but at least it will not sink.

> I'm sorry you had a bad experience in Gods visible organization.

I didn't. There is no such organization. But thanks for the sentiment. I had a bad experience with well-meaning men pretending to speak for God, where God never actually appointed them to do so. (They don't realize how reprehensible it is to do this, because they inherit a system of thought that is culturally outmoded.) But the world knows better.

>> Most of the other Christian churches do not use extensive
>> networks of deception as yours does

> For the benefit of those who read this public forum what
> deception is the Watchtower Organization engaged in.

Cult mind control: an orchestrated system of deception and social pressure which causes people to give up their critical thinking faculties and eventually capitulate to group expectations.

> You are not dealing with a young girl at your door just offering
> the Watchtower and Awake ,YOU ARE BEING EXPOSED AS A LIAR.

If that is what you are doing, you have not yet begun.

> I could care less if you never set foot in another Kingdom Hall

I never entertained the thought, even for a moment, that you were interested in recovering me to your flock as a lost sheep. Anyway that ship has sailed. Once a plant has grown too big for it's pot, it must be replanted into a LARGER pot.

> I exist for those who are deceived by people [Dogs as the bible
> says]like you ,I defend the Watchtower to the death and given time
> can expose you and anyone else on this board as liars.

You have not yet even responded to my statements, for example the two reasons why my church attendance habits do not matter. You cannot expose me as a "liar" without straightforwardly addressing my statements.

> Up until now you have had free reign telling lies about Mother now
> you are on notice!

I have not lied about your "Mother" organization or anything else. I don't have to. The truth gives me all the ammunition I need.

"You are on notice" is Witness jargon that Witnesses have used for many decades, usually pointed toward clergy of Protestant denominations, which means something like, "I'm onto you, and will stand in opposition of you."

That is all well and good, but "Anonymous" has not yet shown any statement I made to be false using either factual evidence nor logic. Don't hold your breath, as he will not be able to do so, for I have not made any false statement.

Scriptural verses do not contradict factual evidence, and therefore are not acceptable in a conversation on the nature of cult mind control and family destruction. Loyal submission to Mother does not substitute for logic.

Best wishes,
AndrewXJW