You are here:
- Home
- Religion/Spirituality
- Jehovah's Witnesses
- Critics of Jehovah`s Witnesses
- Dating between Witnesses and non-Witnesses Causes Suffering
Critics of Jehovah`s Witnesses/Dating between Witnesses and non-Witnesses Causes Suffering
Advertisement
Question
Dear Andrew,
I was raised Catholic and feel in love with a JW girl. She has been my friend for a long time. After I expressed my love for her she started to be closer to me and we started to hold hands and now we kiss on the lips and says I'm little by little getting a big place in her heart. However, she says we "cannot date" until she gets "back in". According to me we are doing what a dating couple does, what does she mean? She also asked her relative about dating me and also was advised to wait "until she gets back in" What's this all about?
Of course, I read a lot about JW's because I want to understand what to expect (she thinks I ignore completely JW's beliefs)Knowing I'm not JW's she wants to date me "after the fact" and even throws in comments about the possibility of marrige once in a while. Is she trying to convert me? is she willing to share a life with me despite our differences in beliefs? or could this be one of those extremely rare exceptions to the rule in these types of relationships? I really love her but I'm confused...
Thanks for your time
God bless!!!
Dear Walter,
On the one hand, congratulations that you have found something pleasant. On the other hand, I am afraid it may be a "mixed blessing".
In the context you've offered, and based on the very limited information available to me about this specific case, it appears that her reference about "waiting until she gets back in" is a political maneuver on her part. I am guessing that she has been expelled by the Witnesses, and wishes to get reinstated, and must interview with elders who will determine the merits of her case and decide whether she can be reinstated. It appears to me that she is concerned that, if the elders knew she was dating a non-Witness, this would hurt her prospects of having her request for reinstatement approved. By keeping her relationship with you a secret, she may hope to get reinstated more easily, and then begin dating you afterward.
In the Witness consciousness, proper dating is always non-sexual, and has only one purpose: to determine compatibility and the feasibility of marriage. So her comments about marriage are perhaps because marriage and dating are innately linked in the Witness mindset. It may not even occur to her that some people date without intent to marry. Explicit communication on that point may be helpful. Don't assume that what's obvious to you is also obvious to her. Don't assume she can be honest with you, or even herself. The Witnesses influence their members to play complex mind games with themselves and others.
> Knowing I'm not JW's she wants to date me "after the fact"
I don't know what this means. It could be a sign she wants to you to convert first, then she might be willing to date. It could be she wants to get reinstated first, then start dating you (but if that is the case she will not be interested in any sexual relations until after marriage).
> Is she trying to convert me?
Whether she is trying to now at this time is not clear to me, but there is no such thing as an active Witness woman in an intimate relationship with a non-Witness man who does not try to influence him to convert. The primary activity and interest of all active Witnesses is to convert people to become Witnesses, especially those closest to them. They believe by doing this, they are helping save lives. They believe that all non-Witnesses will die in the near future at God's own hand at Armageddon; and that is a painful thought for them, especially with regard to someone they are intimate with. As long as she is an active Witness, it will never be OK with her that you are a non-Witness, although she may pretend otherwise in order to keep you.
> Is she willing to share a life with me despite our differences in beliefs?
Possibly, but if she is to be an active Witness, she will never respect your beliefs and your right to determine your beliefs as equal to her own. She will always view your beliefs condescendingly. The Witness mindset insists that their way is the only way approved by God. This includes both beliefs and lifestyle.
If I were in your shoes I would not even consider pursuing such a relationship unless she were committed to a recovery program. Sounds to me like she is going the wrong direction by seeking reinstatement (greater conformity) where she should be seeking recovery (greater freedom).
A life with an active Witness will not even remotely resemble what you consider to be a normal life. The cost to you will be very high: You will completely sacrifice relationship normalcy and emotional freedom and mutual respect and healthy relations with her relatives. You will not be able to share friends in common. She will always treat you condescendingly. The more she returns to the Witnesses, the more condescendingly she will treat you. She will say she respects you, but how can she possibly do so when they are reinforcing her hundreds of hours a year to view you (and all non-Witnesses) as an unwitting pawn of the Devil?
I hope this sheds some light on your future prospects in this relationship. Although it may not be pleasant news to hear, I hope this news serves you well by preventing unnecessary suffering.
My assumption is that "getting back in" means she is returning to the Witnesses after having been expelled. If she is not seeking to become an active Witness after all, then some of what I've said may not apply in your case.
Best wishes,
AndrewXJW
Related Articles
Andrew
Expertise
I don't object to Witness theology, but rather their use of social pressure & deceptive manipulations to undermine family ties and control minds. (This may seem contradictory to Witnesses, who draw no distinction between spiritual belief and organizational policy.) I do not engage in theological debate. I support persons impacted by an experience with the Witnesses and advocate early education for everyone so that they can protect themselves from cults by understanding what to watch out for. (It's not what most people think.)
(Ex-)Witnesses: I know how upsetting it is to experience doubts (or anger) about your experience. Time does not heal this wound until you first remove the splinter, which takes more time and effort than you may realize. So, unless you have already put in that time and effort, don't be surprised if you are deeply affected long after the experience. But there is good news! You're NOT an enemy of God for doubting or for failing to meet the requirements of a human organization. An organization that lies cannot be the exclusive spokesman for the God of Truth. Tell me where you're at. I'll understand. I can show you how to begin or continue your recovery and make a life for yourself worth living.
Non-Witnesses: Describe your experience with your friend/relative who is (becoming) a Witness. I can help you understand the Witness indoctrination and social dynamics that are affecting him or her. I can help you put your options into perspective. Keep in mind that people do make their own choices (even though they may sometimes do so under outside influence) and you may not be able to affect this person's choices, even though they impact on you. After all, you do not have the arsenal of tactics that a cult does (and wouldn't want to). A few people manage to save their friend/relative, but don't count on it. What you can count on is navigating the maze more successfully by becoming more informed about your own options.
Experience
I was a Witness for 30 years, and a volunteer at their headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, for a year. I have attended meetings with many Witness congregations across the United States, a thorough cross-section, carefully observing patterns of behavior. Although being a Witness was difficult, and I gradually had more and more doubts about Witness teachings--I was a true believer, so I kept trying to make it work somehow. I stopped attending meetings in 1997 only after receiving an answer to a prayer about doing so, and have since been actively involved in recovery. This includes both my own and supporting others in theirs. Recovery can include reading books, communicating with others in recovery, and participating in support groups and/or therapy. It always involves reclaiming one's own mind and discovering the other sides of the issues that you have been blinded to in the past.
My gradual awakening was socially, psychologically, and spiritually tumultuous. I lost everything from my former life. My suffering was substantial.
But I have gained everything, so it was worth it. Only after beginning my recovery did I gain social, psychological, and spiritual healing and growth, peace of mind, and self-respect. Only then did I discover who I am; and--for the first time--the meaning of real brotherly love.
For more resources on this topic, try these web sites:
http://freeminds.org/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/freedomofmind/
Education/Credentials
Like most Cult Recovery Counselors, I am a cult survivor. I have life experience, not professional training. Also I feel no need to apologize for that. People with professional training cannot understand what it is like to survive a cult unless they have been through it themselves, which few professional therapists have. Understanding what really happened and what works in this unusual social context is as important as psychological training. Most professional therapists are not specifically trained to support cult survivors. Those who are represent a rare and precious resource.
I sometimes refer people to professional therapists regarding deep personal issues. But surviving a cult is a broad experience with other dimensions. Professional therapy can be very helpful as part of your recovery process, assuming that you choose the right therapist. When choosing a therapist, remember that you are the client and they are a service provider. You are the one who holds authority about the relationship. You get to interview the therapist and decide which one to employ.
Be sure to ask what specific training and experience they have around recovery from cult mind control. Most therapists do not have relevant training. Some carry serious misunderstandings about what cult mind control is; and therefore will misunderstand your struggle. So it pays to be selective as a consumer of professional therapy services.
Past/Present Clients
The Witness organization is not like other churches. Most non-Witnesses really cannot imagine what it is like to be a Witness. The organization has unimaginably extensive rules and monitoring that affect every aspect of life, so there is no privacy and no sense of personal independence. "Independent thought" is considered their greatest "sin".
The organization insists on absolute conformity, and claims to directly represent God; so dissent is not tolerated, and authority is totalitarian. Being a Witness is more like living in China or the former Soviet Union than being a member of a religion as you know it. It was the research of Robert J. Lifton, who was studying--not religions--but totalitarian governments, who first began to illuminate the problem of religious cults around the world, which employ exactly the same tactics as totalitarian governments. His work remains a cornerstone for Cult Recovery Counselors still today. (This may be why many governments are tolerant of cults, to avoid exposing their own control tactics.)
Witnesses often experience unusually dysfunctional lives and an extensive array of personal problems stemming from broken family ties, stunted social development, inner unrest resulting from repressed doubts, inability to defend boundaries, and an extreme, persistent feeling of irrational shame. I can help people impacted by an experience with the Witnesses by revealing in detail the policies and social dynamics in the Witness organization that cause these problems.
©2012 About.com, a part of The New York Times Company. All rights reserved.