AboutAndrew Expertise I don't object to Witness theology, but rather their use of social pressure & deceptive manipulations to undermine family ties & control minds. (This may seem contradictory to Witnesses, who draw no distinction between spiritual belief & organizational policy.) I do not engage in theological debate. I support persons impacted by an experience with the Witnesses & advocate early education for everyone so that they can protect themselves from cults by understanding what to watch out for.
(Ex-)Witnesses: I know how upsetting it is to experience doubts (or anger) about your experience. Time does not heal this wound until you first remove the splinter, which takes more time & effort than you may realize. So unless you have already put in that time & effort, don't be surprised if you are deeply affected long after the experience. But there is good news! You're NOT an enemy of God for doubting or for failing to meet the requirements of a human organization. People who lie cannot represent a God of Truth. Tell me where you're at. I'll understand. I can show you how to begin or continue your recovery & make a life for yourself worth living.
Non-Witnesses: Describe your experience with your friend/relative who is (becoming) a Witness. I can help you understand the Witness indoctrination & social dynamics that are affecting him or her (which are probably not apparent to you). I can help you put your options into perspective. Keep in mind that people make their own choices, & you may not be able to affect this person's choices, no matter how much they impact on you. A few people manage to do so, but don't count on it.
Despite my struggle to recover from my experience with the Witnesses, it was worth it. I will never let anyone cloud my clarity of mind again. Let me use that clarity to help you gain clarity. You deserve it. Every living thing deserves truth, compassion, discovery, and wonder; not manipulation, judgementalism, dogma, or control.
Experience
I was a Witness for 30 years, and a volunteer at their headquarters in Brooklyn, New York, for a year. I have attended many congregations across the United States, carefully observing patterns of behavior. Although being a Witness was difficult and I gradually had more and more doubts about Witness teachings, I was a true believer, so I kept trying to make it work somehow. I stopped attending meetings in 1997 only after receiving an answer to a prayer about doing so, and have since been actively involved in recovery, both my own, and supporting others in theirs. Recovery can include reading books, communicating with others in recovery, and participating in support groups and/or therapy. It always involves reclaiming one's own mind and discovering the other sides of the issues that you have been blinded to in the past.
The Witness organization is not like other churches. Most non-Witnesses really cannot imagine what it is like to be a Witness. The organization has unimaginably extensive rules and monitoring that affect every aspect of life (so there is no privacy and no sense of personal independence).
The organization insists on absolute conformity, and claims to directly represent God; so dissent is not tolerated, and authority is totalitarian. Being a Witness is more like living in China or the former Soviet Union than being a member of a religion as you know it. It was the research of Robert J. Lifton, WHO WAS STUDYING TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT BEHIND THE IRON CURTAIN, that first began to illuminate the problem of totalitarian cult religions around the
world.
Witnesses often experience extremely dysfunctional lives and problems including broken family ties, stunted social development, inner unrest resulting from repressed doubts, inability to defend boundaries, and an extreme, persistent feeling of shame for no apparent reason. I can help people impacted by an experience with the Witnesses by revealing in detail the policies and social dynamics in the Witness organization that cause these problems.
My gradual awakening was socially, psychologically, and spiritually tumultuous. I lost everything from my former life. My suffering was epic.
But I have gained everything, so it was worth it. Only after beginning my recovery, I gained social, psychological, and spiritual healing and growth; I gained peace of mind; I gained self-respect; I discovered who I am; and for the first time I discovered the meaning of real brotherly love.
Question QUESTION: i wanted to say hi and find out who you are. i imagine the possibility you know me or someone in my family. i had an experience recently that lead to reading a book called 'serving humanity' which seem to suggest that i am being called upon to work with spirit entities to advance the evolution of humanity. it's bewildered me. any response?
ANSWER: Dear David,
Unfortunately I find it's too dangerous to reveal more about myself without knowing more about you first. I am so outspoken against Watchtower deceptions that my life could be at risk should I reveal my identity. (Or at least my freedom to express myself.) Although it may seem uncharacteristic for the Watchtower Society to commit acts of lethal violence, that is a typical response of any powerful party to do so when their power is threatened; and in the context of the other atrocities they routinely commit, I feel it is a reasonable concern.
What makes you think we might know each other? Your question has been marked as "private". As long as you continue to mark your messages as "private", you are safe revealing more about yourself, should you choose to do so. I never change private messages to public.
I don't have any direct experience with the book "Serving Humanity", although I have heard of spiritual movements with viewpoints such as those you describe.
Perhaps you might tell more about what made you feel bewildered; or what made you feel that you were being called. It might be an interesting conversation.
Of course none of this is within my area of expertise; so this should be considered an informal, off-topic thread, which is fine.
Best wishes,
AndrewXJW
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QUESTION: I'm David Douek. It's a small world, you never know. Your answers to a lot of questions seem very enlightened; you've done well grasshopper! In the last 15 years I came up with an onotology that worked for me and I started to understand the lives and works of religious figures in different ways. I was happy! This past September I had an epiphany, great I thought; it wasn't the first. Then about 6 weeks later I met someone and had a strange ontological discussion and wondereed, what is she some messenger from the gods. It left me wanting and I ended up in a new age shop feeling that there was something there for me. When I saw that book I knew immediately without looking through it that that was it. The first dozen pages read like superman going to the fortress of solitude and putting in that green crystal and learning who he was. It mentioned the epiphany I had just had and suggested that if I had just had that specific epiphany and am now reading this book that I should not discount that as a coincidence. That I had probably spent some of my life in a concentrated religious structure and then fell away as an unbeliever or atheist but that was part of the process and not a coincidence either. That the ontology I thought was so cleverly conceived by me was actually revealed to me. That those same 'thing' that revealed those things is now through the delivery of this book revealing a little more. The book described my ontology and included clarifying discussions I had had the week earlier. It gets very new age-y and talks about advanced human spirits guiding humanity and read like an application for becoming what sounded like part of the faithful and discreet slave. But more in like there is a large group of servers, a few of which are found in every group, institution, organization, religion, government, etc...each working a different angle towards the same goal; and the goal sounded a lot like a 'new system'. So, to keep this short, if I take this literally, then I'm acknowledging spirits, angels and demons and what have you. If I do that then I'm ascribing some validity into the born and raised very ingrained jw message; if I do that then that suggests the god/satan side and the everything that's not one is the other. Interesting to me is that I read the whole book with pencil in hand which took 6 months. I'm not necessarily a voracious reader and it surprised me that it got and held my attention for so long and apparentaly still has. I had thought I had done a good job of scooping everything out on one hand; and then on another this book seems to be suggesting that those were my grasshopper years...
ANSWER: Good to meet you, David. I don't know you by name. My answers enlighted? Thank you.
Wow it sounds like you've had a remarkable series of experiences.
I recognize in your stages of experience some of the stages I have experienced also, specifically: "I'm acknowledging spirits, angels and demons and what have you. If I do that then I'm ascribing some validity into the born and raised very ingrained jw message"
I would say it's normal to question everything, then abandon much, and later re-embrace some. Even though the Witnesses have made major errors; no one gets EVERYTHING wrong, so it wouldn't surprise me much to find (and I have found) that I still agree with some of their ideas. That's a long way from infallibility of course.
I'm glad you're growing and exploring. In your first message, you described a spiritual approach that sounded to me like the Abraham/Hicks/Seth movement or the Neal Donald Walsch movement. This message describes something more specific, perhaps somewhat like the Celestine Prophecy.
Whatever you've been called to, it's apparently very auspicious for you. May you find meaning and value in it.
I'd say that if there are "advanced human spirits" guiding the human race from within many institutions, they're not doing a very good job at it. I see more evidence that there are "debased human spirits", that is, persons in positions of wealth and power, who pull strings from within many institutions in order to advance their own selfish goals.
Yet I am open to the possibility of hope. My doubts could as likely be my own shortsightedness as insightfulness; no one can see everything.
I toy with the idea that the universe is intentionally designed in such a way as to entertain both good and evil; light and dark; kindness and abuse; and that which realm we live in is something of a choice. Yet I have not been able to reconcile that experimental idea with collective realities, in which many are influenced by collective decisions which do not align with their individual decisions. So ideas such as the law of attraction are incongruous with the external reality of oppressive political conditions, for example.
Spiritual growth continues, fortunately.
Blessings to you,
AndrewXJW
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QUESTION: For many years I've tried to have no beliefs, if that's possible. I felt that I had come to an understanding that many spiritual seekers had come to, be it jesus, buddha, laotse, whomever ...with the qualifier that this understanding is applicable to oneself alone. That is of itself something weird to come to terms with also, but it seemed that a strict religious upbringing was almost a required catalyst. The problem I have is when it begins to take on these phemenological overtones and then on top of that overlays jw teachings. For example, is the ushering in of the new aquarian age what jw call the new system. Do more enlightened persons actually have a role in ushering in this new age and does that avert an armageddon like demise of the race. Are there unseen spirit entities involved and could there be light and dark ones. You said you prayed for guidance to disassociate yourself, who do you believe you were praying to, who answered you, were you being called out to take a different role to herald in the onset of this supposed new age? There was a convergence in the ideals and organisational template outlined in this book and those of the wt society, even synonomous language.
Answer Dear David,
I feel it's essential to achieve a state of somewhat complete recovery before we can enjoy a new spiritual experience without it being contaminated/distorted by our past baggage related to our having been spiritually, psychologically, and socially abused as Witnesses.
One mental health professional I knew who was involved in cult recovery suggested that it takes half as much time at active recovery as was spent in the cult experience; so if you were a Witness for 20 years, you would have to work at an active recovery process for 10 years in order to achieve near complete recovery.
This is, in effect, my central message to former Witnesses: It never goes away until you work at it persistently, actively, determinedly; but it very much is worth working at nonetheless.
I can relate to how difficult your quagmire is in considering the possibility of taking on a new spiritual life while Witness baggage still looms near center stage in your psyche.
The fact that the Witnesses have predicted "the end of the world", like many of their predictions, are circumstantial. By that I mean they observe trends that non-Witnesses also observe, and draw conclusions similar to those drawn by some non-Witnesses also. Many people believe some sort of end or great transition is imminent. The Witnesses frame that concept in a unique way; and I reject their framing of it; but it is quite plausible to me that a world is ending; especially in view of the fact that the world has ended many times in the past.
So it does not necessarily trigger my past Witness issues to think they might have been right to say the world is ending. I know deep in my bones that they cannot represent the God of Truth considering their extensive use of deception. I know deep in my bones that I do not have to tolerate and employ such deception myself in order to qualify for any divine blessing; however.
No one can tell you what is spiritually true; only you can discover that for yourself. May you make that discovery in freedom; for it is not spirituality at all if it is coerced.
When I prayed for guidance about whether to stay with the Witnesses or leave, I still conceptualized Jehovah as the Witnesses had taught me. One thing that was eminently clear to me at that time is that the way God behaves is very different from the way the Witnesses behave. I have always trusted God; although his nature in my conception has dramatically morphed over time.
Who answered me in retrospect I could not know; surely someone who can manipulate natural phenomenon. At that time I felt it was Jehovah. One of the doubts I had to grapple with at that time, as implanted by my Witness training, was that perhaps the message came from Satan. At that time I believed that since I had been true in my heart to Jehovah, and since I uttered the prayer only inside my head (not aloud), and since Jehovah protects those who are faithful to him, Satan could not have heard my prayer and therefore could not have answered. I further believed that if Jehovah had allowed Satan to respond with one sign rather than responding himself with another, that would have amounted to the Creator of the Universe betraying me in a moment of sincerety. I concluded that a loving God could not, would not, do that.
I still believe it was a loving God who answered, and brought me to freedom and grace, although I no longer arrogantly claim to know what he is.
Was I being called to take a role? I feel we all have a part to play, a potential mission in this life which is closely related to our greatest wound. I know my greatest wound is having been massively lied to via an incredibly convoluted and orchestrated system of deception; and that my gift is having been able to intuitively see through that deception. I know in my bones that I can use that give as a benefit to the world. I have communicated with hundreds of people; and many of them have told me my support was immensely helpful. That is part of my recovery process. And it provides me with a form of spiritual employment to know that I can use my gift in a way that helps people.
I tend to discount the possibility that my role is crucial in any way; but that may be a weakness on my part. When I am honest with myself I must admit that my role could be greater than I would like. I do not know. I have never felt called to take a post of power.
But I am comfortable with the idea that all have a role to play, including me and including you; and perhaps our role contributes to a greater good none of us can fully grasp. At least I hope so.
I hope that the species is moving forward. Many spiritual teachers say it is. I fear that the species is moving backward. My own political analysis and communication with other political activits suggests it is.
And that is the choice I am faced with: fear or hope. I think my choice is to prepare for the worst and work to create the best, and leave the outcome up to someone greater than myself.
