Critics of Jehovah`s Witnesses/GOD AND COUNTRY
QUESTION: Hello brother in the LORD,I asked this question about the service of our country to another expert and the answer he gave really have me confused because he made points I never thought of.I choose you by reading your profile that you are also born again and not a jw but you must have knowledge of their doctrines that I dont and can refute his answer.My question was this to him
Why are Jehovah's Witnesses against the American flag?
My Church support the our flag,we have one in our Church and I'm proud to have served my country to give you the freedom you have now.
The Churches of Christendom worship gods other than the true God Jehovah,his name is probably seldom even mentioned in Church since they teach Jesus is God.
Christendom worship things that they make from wood,stone,or metal which is against the scriptures:
(Exodus 32:4) . . .Then he took [the gold] from their hands, and he formed it with a graving tool and proceeded to make it into a molten statue of a calf. And they began to say: “This is your God, O Israel. . .
(Leviticus 26:1) . . .‘YOU must not make valueless gods for yourselves, and YOU must not set up a carved image . . .
(Deuteronomy 5:8-9) . . .You must not make for yourself a carved image, any form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. 9 You must not bow down to them. . .
(2 Corinthians 4:4) . . .among whom the god of this system of things has blinded the minds of the unbelievers,. . .
Now when the Devil tempted Jesus he made it clear as to who ruled this world a fact Christendom ignores :
(Matthew 4:8-9) . . .the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9 and he said to him: “All these things I will give you. . .
The Devil own words were that he would Jesus all the glory and ruling authority of the earth.
How could the Devil give anything pertaining to the world if he didn't have control over it.
So its clear the Devil according to scripture is the God of this world,that would include all the arm forces in the world,they cant belong to the true God since the Devil is the ruler of the world and the things in the world,Jesus said he and his followers were no part of the world.
So why would a footstep follower of Jesus support the worlds armed forces that belong to Satan and salute the symbol of the Devils world the flag of any country.
If you think Jesus would join armed forces or stand at attention and salute a flag you are sadly mistaken and badly mislead.
Yes Christendom support the country and worship of the flag as you pointed out with one right in the Church itself. They support sending its young to go to war where they could be maimed or killed and tell people it was for God and country but as I showed its not for Jehovah but for the Devil.
Satan uses the front of religion to fool people like you to join his armed forces in to thinking its what God wants,these false Churches who mislead the ignorant will one day be judged adversely.
Please help me in a follow up to him,is it true that God is against our armed forces? I never heard that before,how could he be against freedom from our enemy's also would Jesus join the USMC.Show me the scriptures I can use in a follow up .
My wife read his response who is studying with a gal who comes here who is a jw asked her to explain his answer and said she preferred not to get into what he said,we both think she didn't know as she fumbled looking the bible and couldn't find the scriptures.
That being said the expert made me think that we could be wrong but on the other hand he could be
ANSWER: Thank you for your question and thank you for your service. You are so right, your self-sacrifice has preserved the freedom for all of us. Thank you again for your service. In Acts 10 the Bible describes Cornelius who was a soldier and he is referred to as righteous and God-fearing. (More about Cornelius later)
Let's get down to your question. In short there is nothing in the Bible that is against the American Flag or serving in the military. I know that Jehovah Witnesses twist the scripture to fit their man-made doctrine in this matter. (Note Jehovah Witnesses are taught that truth only comes from the watchtower so some will not be open to anything that contradicts their belief.)
What I would like to do is answer the "experts" answer point by point.
First of all Exodus 32:4, Leviticus 26:1 and Deuteronomy 5:8-9 all deal with worshiping an item. Do you bow down and worship the American Flag. Showing respect for a symbol of our freedom and worshiping an idol are two different things. To say that these verses apply to the flag is distorting what the Bible says.
Next move on to 2 Corinthians 4:4 Notice who was blinded in this passage. It is those who distort what the Bible says and make it say something that it does not.
Matthew 4: 8-9 tells the story of Satan tempting Jesus. Satan is a deceiver and no where in this passage does it state anything about the Flag or military service. I guess the logic could be that Satan owns the world so we should have not part of it. Following that logic I guess we should not use the bathroom or cook food because that is part of the world. (Please forgive my sarcasm.)
Since none of these verses have anything to do with military service or the flag, lets look at some that might be closer to our topic.
Let me ask a question, what is military service? Is it defending what is right with force. Look at what Jesus did in John 2:15-16 15 So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple courts, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. 16 To those who sold doves he said, “Get these out of here! Stop turning my Father’s house into a market!” Jesus made a weapon and aggressively scattered and drove out people from the temple. Think about it. Isn't this a military action.
One final point, if God is totally against anyone serving in the military, what about Cornelius in Acts 10. The Bible describes him as a devout soldier in Italian Army. The Bible also says that he was a righteous and God fearing man. Read the entire chapter of Acts 10 and it describes how Cornelius was used by God to help Peter. Peter knew that Cornelius was in the military and said nothing about it. If God is against people serving in the military then why would God write about a soldier that was used by Him?
In summary, the Bible says nothing against person showing respect for a symbol of our freedom. (Our Flag) No where in the Bible does it condemn military service and in fact Cornelius, a soldier, ways described as righteous and was used by God. The Bible does say a lot about helping people and lifting up those who cannot defend themselves. Isn't that an aspect of military service.
I hope this helps. If you need more information, please reply back.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Now im more confused and Ill explain why,the expert that I was inquiring about is from the other expert jw site not yours,so i came here to get another perspective hopefully explaing the verses he cited.I contacted you and others on your site who are supposedly critics of jws .I expected basically the same answer as yours which you said the scriptures support the military but thats not what I got,instead another expert on your site said:
"I understand your confusion; I was a little lost as I was reading the Brother's response myself. He does have the right idea however.
I will start with your question about the flag:
The brother cited some very appropriate scriptures. Jehovah God decreed in numerous scriptures that idol worship was to be condemned. God's people were not to make any images of God, they were not to try and represent God in any material form, they were to worship only him, and no physical thing (Exodus 32:4; Leviticus 26:1; Deuteronomy 5:8-9). God's people were to have faith that he alone existed and that they could worship him without the presence of some material object to try and represent him. Afterall, how could anyone truly represent the all-powerful and grand Creator of the Universe, the epitome of love (1 John 4:8), and source of all life and being? To do so would be an impossible task, and any attempt would not do God justice.
What is the flag for? It is there as a symbol of some greater power (the nation) and is to be revered, saluted, and, in a sense, worshiped. Just as the Israelites of Moses' day rallied behind that golden calf to praise and worship it, people today rally behind their nation's flag as they go off to War Finally, you asked me if Jesus would have joined the USMC. My answer, quite simply is no.
Consider the night Jesus was betrayed by Judas Iscariot and handed over to the Romans. What happened?
Matthew 26:50-52: Then they came forward and laid hands on Jesus and took him into custody. But, look! one of those with Jesus reached out his hand and drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest and took off his ear. Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword"
So this expert was agreeing with him not with you and that surprised me really but more importantly confused me even more.
Another on your board just said:
This is a theological question. I respect your question but I am not the person to help you with it. Since the Witnesses use extensive deception as a mind control cult, I don't think they are either.
Do you have a local pastor or counsellor you trust? That might be a good place to start. You deserve peace and rest. Blessings and peace upon your suffering.
Now i dont know the bible as well as you or some of the others but looking again at what you say that jesus took military action by chasing people out i dont think is the same as what i did as taking a human life so that now is not a good comparison,at first it made sense but after reading others answers on your board it does not now. Another point you mentioned a army man who was called a man of God so he had to be acceptable since he was in military service,i was happy to have read that but then i read from another of your experts that he was not converted but just a believer,i assumed by your answer he was a born again christian while in the military and after his conversion continued in the army but that was not the case.
Im dealing with my conscience in this matter because of this persons answer and you made it seem that this army man was saved while in the army but i read the account very carefully and thats not the case ,he had a vision while in the military and was saved by peter ,are you saying he continued afterwards in the army? if so then im sorry for doubting your sincerity and knowledge of the bible.
If he was in the army after he was saved then that would show God is in favor of military service thats all im asking you,if he left right after he was saved then that would mean because you cited this as proof God approves of the military that you mislead me. If Cornelius received holy spirit and became a disciple of Jesus who said as another expert replied :
Consider the night Jesus was betrayed by Judas Iscariot and handed over to the Romans. What happened?
Matthew 26:50-52: Then they came forward and laid hands on Jesus and took him into custody. But, look! one of those with Jesus reached out his hand and drew his sword and struck the slave of the high priest and took off his ear. Then Jesus said to him: “Return your sword to its place, for all those who take the sword will perish by the sword.
I cant see the army man taking up a sword after he was converted based on what this expert in your group said Jesus said.
I have to tell you im very disappointed in your response. Please clairfy
I am sorry that you are disappointed and confused but when you are asking Christians and Jehovah witnesses the same question, you are going to get very different responses. The only thing that matters here is what does the Bible say.
Since you referred to Matthew 26:50-52 several times, lets deal with that first. In looking at the context Jesus knew that His crucifixion on the cross was His purpose. Jesus was telling his disciple to act peaceably in this situation and in an individual manner. This is not the same context as a country defending themselves.
Another question was that of the flag. Let me refer to my original post where I said that there is a big difference between looking at the flag as a symbol of America and worshipping a false idol. To use Exodus 32:4. Leviticus 26:1, and Deuteronomy 5:8-9 as scriptures against respect for the American flag is to use them out of context. If someone does worship the American flag is that the flag's fault? I know people who "worship" houses and cars but that does not make houses and cars bad.
As for Cornelius you stated, "you mentioned a army man who was called a man of God so he had to be acceptable since he was in military service." First of all, read my post and I did not say that, what I did say that he was a righteous and God-fearing man. He was a soldier and was open to the message from Peter and was used by God. In his conversation, Peter new he was soldier but said nothing bad about his military service. In addition, the Bible never says that Cornelius ever gave up his military service.
There are several other instances where Jesus and His followers were with soldiers and never once was there a command to quit the military. Consider in Luke 3:14 when Jesus was talking to soldiers. Jesus told them 3 things, don't extort money, don't accuse people falsely, and be content with your pay.
The following link is a good site that gives more evidence to this topic.
You will see different thoughts from Jehovah witnesses. Keep in mind this is the critics of Jehovah witnesses site. In the end it does not matter what man-made groups say as much as it does what the Bible says.
I would encourage you to spend some prayerful time at the link I provided and look at the information with an open mind.
May God richly bless you as you seek Him.