Expert: Andrew - 7/29/2006

Question
I feel that many charismatic christians don't want to be honest and seek what is true.

I go in some charismatic christian environment, and sometimes I get the feeling they are indoctrinated, but I am never sure. They talk about how wonderful it is to know Jesus, and it feels like my faith is not good enough. I think it is respectless towards me. I can never be 100 % sure if they are true or false. Are they playing..

Are there some similarities between Jehovas witnesses and other human organisations? I am talking about mechanisms that allways happens when  people come together in both religious and non-religious gathetings, for exammple in communism: human indoctrination..?

People are afraid and accept what is beeing told them to get an easy life and get respected and a high position in the church/communion they belong to whether it is religious or not?

I am allways dubting, becuase in the comunities I go, I hear about supernatural things among the charismatic christians, and some talk about how wonderful it is with Jesus and I wonder if I am a christian or not. Other times, I get a feeling they are trying to sell me a perfect image. What is true?

And when people talk about supernatural experinces, there are very few questions. Maybe people are afraid to ask to seem unspiritual. They don't want to show that they don't understand anything of the spiritual things. Then they will come long down on the ranking in the communion/ church, loose their position and so on?

I wonder also: Is there many similarities between all human groups that gather? There is allways competiton, indoctrination, powerfight and so on?

Answer
Dear Andreas,

I have no expertise or direct experience with "Charismatic Christians", so any response I might make would be based strictly on your statements, and what I read in the Wikipedia online encyclopedia regarding "Charismatic movement".

However, I do recognize familiar elements in what you describe. Above all, my advice is to trust your gut, that is, your god-given intuition. It is by influencing individuals to abandon their intuition, their natural gut feelings, that cultish organizations manage to get individuals to think and do things they normally would not. TRUST YOUR GUT!

> I feel that many charismatic christians don't want to be
> honest and seek what is true.
> I go in some charismatic christian environment, and
> sometimes I get the feeling they are indoctrinated, but I
> am never sure. They talk about how wonderful it is to
> know Jesus, and it feels like my faith is not good
> enough. I think it is respectless towards me.

Robert J. Lifton describes one of his eight tactics of cult mind control is "doctrine over person", meaning that the experience and intuition and god-given wisdom innate in the human soul is always viewed as subordinate to group-approved doctrine. Your described experience suggests this tactic may be at work.

> I can never
> be 100 % sure if they are true or false. Are they
> playing..

When I first began my recovery from my experience as a Jehovah's Witness, I desperately felt the need to determine what was true. In retrospect, I think it was because I had become dependent upon the illusion that it is possible to have complete intellectual certainty about the spiritual world. I don't think such certainty is possible. Faith means letting go of such intellectual certainty, does it not? Yet as a Witness, I had no faith at all, but instead was indoctrinated to hold this intellectual certainty instead, as if I could actually hear the words of God by tuning in to the words of men. It was all delusion.

Truth will always be important to me, but I no longer expect to find it in intellectual terms as pertaining to spiritual matters. Spiritual truth is inherently non-intellectual. Those who try to codify and intellectualize it are distorting it.

> Are there some similarities between Jehovas witnesses and
> other human organisations? I am talking about mechanisms
> that allways happens when  people come together in both
> religious and non-religious gathetings, for exammple in
> communism: human indoctrination..?

Certainly. There are many organizations, religious and non-religious, who use cult mind control. The pre-eminent and original researcher on cult mind control, Robert J. Lifton, who has helped countless people recovering from their experience with RELIGIOUS cults, was not even studying religious cults. HE WAS STUDYING THE INDOCTRINATION THAT OCCURS IN TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT INTERNMENT CAMPS. This works because the tactics of cult mind control are the same whether the group theme is religious or political or self-help or something else.

The experience of people in China today is very much like the experience of Jehovah's Witnesses around the world. Systems of closed logic, squashing of critical thinking, squashing of freedom of dissent, control of information, social and political pressure against those who do not conform, etc.

And there are many other religious and non-religious organizations who use the eight cult mind control tactics that Lifton describes, possibly including your charismatic christian group. I do not know. I suggest you digest and understand the eight tactics, then compare each one for yourself, asking yourself, "Does my group use this tactic?"

> People are afraid and accept what is beeing told them to
> get an easy life and get respected and a high position in
> the church/communion they belong to whether it is
> religious or not?

This is definitely an example of "social and political pressure" used by organizations to obtain conformity from members. When such pressure is used in conjunction with an orchestrated system which overwhelms mental defenses, it is highly effective at changing thought patterns and behavior, regardless of how well the individual is educated.

> I am allways dubting, becuase in the comunities I go, I
> hear about supernatural things among the charismatic
> christians, and some talk about how wonderful it is with
> Jesus and I wonder if I am a christian or not. Other
> times, I get a feeling they are trying to sell me a
> perfect image. What is true?

It is not my place to tell you what is true about the spiritual realm. That is yours to discover for yourself. Look to God himself for inspiration. Accept the word of no man as a representative of God.

If you feel someone is trying to sell you something, you are right to be suspicious. Always doubt those who are selling something. The fact that you are still able to doubt shows that you are using your god-given faculty of critical thinking. NEVER LET ANYONE PRESSURE YOU INTO GIVING THAT UP!

True spiritual experience and discovery and practice does not require pressure, and cannot come with pressure, and does not work with pressure. It is something you discover when you are at peace.

> And when people talk about supernatural experinces, there
> are very few questions. Maybe people are afraid to ask to
> seem unspiritual. They don't want to show that they don't
> understand anything of the spiritual things. Then they
> will come long down on the ranking in the communion/
> church, loose their position and so on?

This is another example of using social and political pressure to obtain conformity. People who pretend in a certain way in order to achieve rank in a hierarchy are doing a great disservice to themselves, basically selling their souls for profit. True spirituality does not depend upon rank or pretense. You know this in your gut! That is why you asked.

> I wonder also: Is there many similarities between all
> human groups that gather? There is allways competiton,
> indoctrination, powerfight and so on?

I think there are many potential similarities and perhaps vulnerabilities based on human nature; yet these can be avoided like a pothole in the road if you know what to watch out for.

Indoctrination can definitely be avoided! You do not need to accept indoctrination as a necessity in order to participate in community. Competition is very common among peers, but we can rise above it by exercising choice. Power struggles and politics are common in hierarchies, but you need not be involved in a hierarchy in order to participate in community.

Best wishes,
Andrew