AboutPhilip Belove, Ed.D. Expertise Hi. I`m Philip Belove (that is my
name, really). I`m 60 and I`ve been a psychologist all my midlife, the
past 25 years. My specialty has been counseling and coaching other
midlife adults. I think we all figure things out as we go along,
but even more so at midlife. Being between 40-ish and 60-ish and single
is like being a stranger in a strange land. I`ve learned which questions
help people find their own way. I created this category, I publish a
dating at midlife newsletter and I write articles for various web sites.
My commitment is to help people 1) understand and improve how they deal
with others, 2) understand the forces that rule the relationships they
are in, and 3) make the decisions which will shape, or create, or end
those relationships so they achieve the goal of midlife
development to finally live with personal satisfaction. I`ve been
divorced twice myself. I`m in a satisfying relationship with a fine
person. I`m very interested in learning about your challenges and in
offering what I can.
Experience Professionally: Licensed Psychologist. Marriage and Family Therapist. Coach.Author. University Lecturer. Personally: I'm 61. I've probably made all the big mistakes, er, learned the big lessons.I've forgiven myself and made many apologies and I've made it into a good, stable, sweet relationship.
Question QUESTION: I'm 33, divorced for 6 years now and since then have been dating casually. I am a rare male that has no children of my own and am still very happy not having children.
I started dating a 37 year old that has four kids... 20,19, 15, and 5 about 9 months ago. The entire time we had decided to just keep it casual but super honest and real about how we communicate. So for months now we have been communicating that we were ok with our arrangement,that we whole heatedly love each other (we say it randomly) and even started to have sex without condoms (this was HUGE for me! I am a RELIGIOUS condom wearer not wanting any kids-she cant have anymore- not wanting a disease and not wanting my un attached heart broken...) then I lost my job and moved 45 min away. We almost ended it then when I left but it didn't feel right to either of us, so a month after I moved we changed our relationship to "we can date other people but to only be exclusive sexually" to one another because it feels "safe and comfortable." So now these feelings of mine are rapidly changing and I first worry that my feeling are not true. Maybe the distance is frightening, maybe it's my old baggage that my ex-wife left me when I was down and out with no job. We talked about it, she said things had changed with me and that I had been looking with her with vulnerable eyes. And wanted to know where I was at in this point in our relationship. I told her that our current arrangement was fine, "date whom you'd like" I said. I have always had the theory that a long leash was better than a short leash and that it was healthy for us to ensure that the grass really wasn't greener on the other side... I ask her last night "are we still seeing other people?" and she's a little bothered that she needs to re-iterate because we just had this talk. I say ok cause I'm not seeing anyone else and she responds "that would make me your girlfriend, I told you I'm not ready to be anybody's girlfriend at this point in my life." I don't hold my ground cause I'm unsure of my own feeling and say ok. She then tells me "I am the greatest man I have ever known" and I say "then I guess I have nothing to worry about, date whomever..." but then I ask one nagging question. "If your not looking for a husband, if your not looking for a father of your children, I am the greatest man you have ever known, and you want to sleep with me exclusively...then why would you even want to go on a date with another man?" She stumped and after a few seconds says "I don't know. cause I'm flirty and I like my independence."
So I feel like things are out of control. I'm afraid of telling her how I truly feel because she may not feel the same way. I'm afraid that if I do not tell her I may end up losing her. We have been exclusive sexually and romantically by choice. If I put the label GIRLFRIEND on her it really doesn't change how we have been rolling all these months except for the label? Is it ok to have a serious relationship, without trying to get married and help raise her kids? Cause she's not asking for that and never has. Do I even bother telling her and risk freaking her out, or do I hope the long leash catches her as it did me? I DO KNOW I love her, is that enough?
ANSWER: There’s no telling whether your love for her is enough. You will be tested on it, that’s for sure. It might be that your love for her will change the fundamental deal you two had and thereby undo your arrangement, certainly it will cause a crisis.
You’re dealing with baggage -- stuff people carry with them and don't want to lose -- and it’s complex. I’ll do my best to explain it, or at least explain where I’m coming from. All I can do is give you some clinical impressions based on experience. These are educated guesses, so they could be right, half right, or just wrong.
First of all I’d take seriously all three parts of her comment to you: "I don't know. cause I'm flirty and I like my independence." She doesn’t quite know or understand why these priorities are as important as they are but they are. (Baggage is also sealed and you don't know what's in it but you do know it's important.)
She likes being independent and she likes the idea that she could, if she wanted to, snag the attentions of a man, even if she wanted nothing more than that, and she doesn’t want to have to worry about how that will effect you (independence.)
Another indicator of the independence priority is her heightened sensitivity to your vulnerable eyes. I read that as that was something she wasn’t comfortable with because she wishes to be kind and considerate but still independent. She also is extreme sensitive to needing to care for you emotionally. Perhaps with four children and a wish to be independent and also be honest she calls you on that.
In a sense, this kind of independence also suits you, or at least has and that might be why you are so comfortable not having children.
Keeping things casual for a very long time and also being super honest is about the only way for people who highly value independence to create intimacy. Also people who value independence very highly have a hard time knowing their true feelings because to have deep feelings about a relationship tends to compromise your ability to walk away from it, and that is the final test of independence. Your job loss may have put a dent in your ability to be independent and harder for you to get a read on your true feelings.
The label girlfriend will compromise her independence and so I doubt it would be acceptable.
You are both in the testing phase of your relationship and you guys are about to discover which is more important, those private matters that you like about yourself, especially your independence, or the relationship.
This is a fairly elaborate answer, even for me. Please do me the favor of sending extended feedback on this rather complex hypothesis. You may write me directly at drbelove@datingatmidlife.com . You make also write a follow-up. If my theory is correct I would imagine that she also would agree and you two might even have a fairly interesting conversation about it. I’d be curious about how that comes out as well. Thanks again.
Philip
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: So I wanted to thank you for such a thorough answer about my complex baggage question. You were right on I think about why she doesn't want a boyfriend. Just the thought that she could if she wanted to I think she clung to. That and "people who value independence very highly have a hard time knowing their true feelings because to have deep feelings about a relationship tends to compromise your ability to walk away from it" is also right on.
So I search my own emotions because if I do this I want to be sure that I am right about how I feel. I have these revelations that I have allot of baggage and that in order to be happy I need to really address my missuses. First off, I have been hiding from her kids in order to use them as an excuse that I can never be with her/ I can never love her. I always kept my distance from kids because most of my dating is temporary and I always felt like I would be at fault if the kids grown attached to me and then if it didn't work out... then I realized that she had invited me into her home, to be by he children and that would be her responsibility. Plus I love her, and then kids aren't ALL that bad. So all of usudden I see her for whom she really is. I truly great woman. A woman that I would be happy to have for a very long time. I had also been keeping things not very serious with her because I had this imaginary woman that was 25-26 pretty, no kids and loves the heck outta me. Then I realize that girl doesn't exsist and comparing her to a imaginary person wasn't very fair or even smart. So I shed my baggage and tell her Saturday night that I want to be romantically exclusive.
I tell her "just to let you know, I'm not trying to push you away or make you nervous but I am not dating other people nor do I want to. I love you, and your all the woman I need." She says she knew and was going to talk to me about it tonight if I didn't bring it up. She says then we have to end it, and I start to cry alittle.I apologize for making her feel that she wasn't enough because she has so many kids and that she is all the woman I need. We have to end it because I do not feel the same way, you love me more than I love you. I tell her that alright, and she says it isn't. It's not fair to me and that I deserve better. She says she is Not even seeing other people but the fact that I wanted her to date me exclusively meant that we can now be nothing more than plutonic friends. And that she would like that still very much. I tell her that I'm not asking for something crazy, it's how we've been rolling all this time and that I had been so pleased with how things were that I was just trying to preserve what we have. Not trying to rock our boat but to keep it steady. She said no, don't you get it I don't feel the same way. I don't want to be anybodys anything. I want to be nobody to nobody. Now I ask if we can go back to how things were and she says no, it's not fair to me and my feelings. Then it gets late and she tells me she doesn't want me to drive so late and confused so we cuddle all night...It's good cuddling to, nothing sexual, but when I grabbed her thigh her ass moved closer to me in appreciation. Like it always did.
That morning I'm kinda clingy and hurt and basically beg her to reconsider.I even say I wish I hadn't even told her because no I've lost her, and she said that's just it I didn't want to be anyones to lose. I tell her it would be easy, it would even be part time(since I come after the 4 kids and I live so far away), that I wont get possessive and that I'm a safe bet.She stands her ground, doesn't cry but I could see pain and even a little bit of anger in her face. She tells me to have dignity and to take it for what it is, and that I deserve someone that can love me in return. Fine. I leave. I leave like a little kid skidding away with my car at her driveway....
An hour later I text her, say I'm sorry and ask if " I could say goodbye a second time like a man, like her friend." She says sure come back by. I tell her that I will miss her. That I love her, That I thought that maybe she felt the same way and that she may have been lying to herself. I reminder her that she was the one that started saying I love you first, and that it was her idea to be sexually exclusive and that I was shocked that we were ending it. She says that it was me who had his feelings changed and that it was me that didn't keep it real in the end. We say that there is nothing to be sorry about and hug, long and sensual hug and say good bye. I tell her that I will always love her and drive away calmly.
That night I texed her "No mo tears, no mo worries, try to get some sleep" she wrote back " I'm so glad to hear that. U 2 :) MUAH!" then I wrote back "Yeah I still don't like it. I think its still kinda tragic but I'm embracing the change and thinking positive about all I've learned about me and u" no response so I wrote "btw thank you for the 2nd chance at our goodbye. meant alot. and was beautiful just like the last 9months im left w no regrets and happy memories. gnite for real ;)" and she responded "Ur so very welcome. Nitey nite."
Then I sent her a copy of my question to you and your response on her myspace. She hasn't read it yet. But my plan now is to leave her be. No calling her, no texting her and I honestly hope to God she comes back to me. I know I'm not suppose to wait for her, or have hope but I can't help it...
I DO have a mutual friend of mine more than hers that is planning on doing some girl on girl talking over coffee (secretly) in my behalf. She is hoping to find out if her feelings are wavering, if I need to chase or pursue...so I sent in a spy.
BECAUSE I HONESTLY THINK SHE IS AFRAID AND ALL THIS IS BAGGAGE AND THAT SHE IS A INTELLIGENT AND BRAVE WOMAN AND THAT IN A FEW DAYS SHE WILL COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSIONS THAT I DID... (i hope)
What do I do now? I want her back so badly. I have not loved since my ex-wife 6 years ago, being single and having sex without a connection will not heal the whole in my heart. I miss what we had. I know she loves me, I felt it in her touch.
Please give me some advice and courage to do what next is needed.
Answer Hi, Mark. Thanks for the follow up and the feedback. I’m afraid I don’t have very happy news for you. I really thing she’s been very direct and honest with you about her feelings about the relationship. I don’t think she’ll waver. She said it lots of times, “I don’t want to be anybody’s anything.” She does not want what the relationship is turning into and she’s nipping this next deeper level in the bud. The next thing she will do is either take a break or take up with someone else whom she also thinks will keep a distance.
In your follow up letter you said that you thought your baggage was in avoiding contact with her kids. Maybe, but that really worked for her. She had the relationship she wanted and you changed it and so she ended it. That’s what she’s said to you and in my clinical experience, that make perfect sense for some people. Often older single women like this have affairs with married me who will stay married. They don’t want the demands of a relationship and the enjoy the pleasantries of having a man in their lives. They pick married men who are going to stay married because there is no drama and the men will be pleasant company and then will go away. You started to ask for some deeper intimacy and she cut you off before things got too dramatic.
You, however, have had a wake=up call. You, single for many years have started to realize that maybe you’d like to really have a relationship. I’m guessing that from her point of view (and this is why I don’t’ think she’ll change) she’s “been there, done that.” At some level you take it personally, but for the most part you don’t and that’s a good thing. She hasn’t changed. You have.
You still have some important lessons to learn. You aren’t nearly as independent as you thought you were.
Let me know if you’d like to do a series of baggage-check interviews with me. You might learn a few very useful things about yourself and it will help you when the next relationship challenge comes along. You can follow up directly at drbelove@datingatmidlife.com
Also, as before, I’m following my clinical intuitions here and I’d really appreciation knowing whether I’m still on the right track. Thanks
