Expert: Davide Andrew Papa - 5/12/2009

Question
QUESTION: Dear Sir,
since a couple of month we are connected to a sellers mandater. Can you explain what is the normal rate (commission) for deals in the energy sector. It depense on what??
Regards
Karl Meyers

ANSWER:
Dear Karl-

Did you read URPIB rules on my site? - www.itsi.itgo.com

A real mandated "seller" acts on behalf of his disclosed principal-
We intermediaries act on behalf of undisclosed principals-

If the mandated seller has not provided to you his mandate ship paper disclosing his Principal supplier - then he is no mandate holder of such-but just another confused intermediary.

A genuine mandate holder gets paid by his principal- Accordingly his principal has to also allow or authorize commission payment to all other intermediaries involved in the same deal- this usually will NOT happen as the principal is only obligated to his authorized mandate holder- hence Circumvention is easily applied.

The Mandate holder once confirmed is treated the same as a "supplier" this means a person taking control of the intermediary group ' BUYS" the goods from the "supplier" and resell to an "end buyer" at a higher price - using the funds of the end buyer as per the quote given-

The middle controlling intermediary the said "buyer/seller"  then collects the commission after the deal closes and pays out agreed commissions to all intermediaries involved-ON BOTH SIDE- In effect a true mandate holder CANNOT CLAIM ANY PART OF THE INTERMEDIARY COMMISSION, AS IT'S IMPROPER, UNETHICAL IF NOT ILLEGAL  TO COLLECT COMMISSION 'TWICE"

Thus as per below typical string contract  Schematic-

(1) Supplier/ AND OR registered Mandate holder
(2) Sourcing intermediary
(2) Sourcing intermediary
(2) Sourcing intermediary
(2) Sourcing intermediary
(3) INTERMEDIARY BUYER/SELLER
(4) Sourcing intermediary
(4) Sourcing intermediary
(5) END BUYER/AND OR REGISTERED MANDATE HOLDER


NUMBER ONE IS ONE GROUP
2/3/4: ARE ASSOCIATED INTERMEDIARY GROUP
NUMBER FIVE IS ONE GROUP

NOBODY GETS PAST NUMBER (3) INTERMEDIARY THE BUYER/SELLER-

NUMBER (3) INTERMEDIARY SELLS THE GOODS TO THE END BUER AT A HIGHER PRICE

NUMBER (3) GETS COMMISSION SECURED WHEN THE DLC IS TRANSFERRED

NUMBER (3) COLLECTS COMMISSION WHEN DELIVERY EVENTUATES

NUMBER (3) PAYS ALL INTERMEDIARIE IN NUMBER (4) AND NUMBER (2) GROUP

NO CIRCUMVENTION POSSIBLE UNLESS NUMBER (3) HIMSELF IS A CROOK-
THUS YOU MUST ONLY WORK WITH NUMBER (3) WHO KNOWS WHAT TO DO AND HOW TO CLOSE A DEAL AND CAN BE TRUSTED FULLY-ALAS 99.9% OF BUYER/SELLER ON THE NET ARE CONFUSED,  DO KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING OR KNOW HOW TO TRADE CORRECTLY.


THUS IT IS YOU WHO MUST HOLD POSITION NUMBER (3) IN A GOODD VIABLE DEAL IF YOU WNAT TO BE 100% SURE OF CONTROLLING ALL COMMISSIONS-

TO BE AT NUMBER (3) YOU MUST LEARN BASIC INTERMEDIARY TRADING PROCEDURES OR YOU WLL NEVER SEE A CENT IN COMMISSION-

If you cannot hold position as number (3) then you must become attached to a good and honourable trader holding position number (3) (If you can find one as such who know how to close a deal correctly)

There is no other way to collect commisson on an effective deal-

I hope the aboe is clear-and guides your path- Trading application as seen on the net ( LOI,ICPO, MPA, NCNDA..etc..etc..) are useless unworkable Intermediary procedures-

As for the rates- Its on the ITSI site in URPIB rules- Fuels generally are set at USD$1.00 per BBL for everyone involved from 2 to 4 to share with Number 3 getting the largest share- If the discount available is higher- then the end buyer gets that as an inducement to BUY- not intermediaries.When you sell something like Crude Oil Buyers side 4.00 per BBL sellers side 4.00 BBL- throw the deal away you are wasting your time-

you can't hid commission payments - It's recorded on the sellers invoice as "Consultancy fee's"- and End buyer will not allow his money to be used in paying intermediaries 8.00 per bbl in commission- that's not going to happen- But he will not protest if he got 7.00 per BBL  discount and the intermediaries shared $1.00 bbl among themselves-





Kind Regards
Davide Papa
www.ftnexporting.com
www.ftnx.9f.com


 






 










---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear Davide,
first of all many thanks for your substantial answer on my question. I will also spend a lot of time to read the websites you told me. But now during my commission request i have got a new situation. Because of lucky circumstances I got the connection to two refinneries. The dream of a intermediarie is to be mandater. What should and/or what must I do to be a mandater for this refinneries? Regards Karl

Answer

Dear Karl

You can't simply become a mandate holder of a principal. Intermediaries think that because they have secured a supplier - they are automatically a mandate holder- they are not.

Mandate holder is just another name for "Agent of a disclosed supplier"

and a disclosed supplier will not give agency just to anyone because the agent is actually the authorized disclosed Seller  of goods belonging  to a disclosed  supplier  - in where the supplier takes all legal responsibilities and consequences of such made of the such an agent, for return of small commission payment.

Thus Very experienced educated informed  person  would only ever be considered for such a position-


You have secured a refinery- Then you must act as "buyer for an undisclosed principal" there is no other way-


You need to study procedures intently and know what you are doing to act as a buyer or mandated agent of a supplier- as a buyer , nobody tell you what to do- You are your own boss. As a mandate holder - You must only act within the bounds of your agency agreement - you have no control.

If you don't have may years of experience then Months of intense study and understanding is needed  before you would even ask for such a mandate ship.





KIND REGARDS

Davide Giovanni Andrew Papa
CEO:FTN Exporting

Education: www.itsi.itgo.com
Study/Book: www.ftnexporting.com
FTNX Board: www.ftnx.9f.com
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