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About Philip Belove, Ed.D.
Expertise
Divorce is the beginning of a life review process. For many people, it`is the first intentional decision they make about their lives. The transition into the next stage of life is difficult at first, but it gets easier. The questions I can help you with: What happened? How do I take care of our children? How do I get over my anger? How do I plan a future for myself?

Experience
I am Philip Belove, psychologist and coach. My specialty is helping people do their midlife transformation work, a psychological project that creates a foundation for happy and satisfying second half of life.

Midlife Work, because it involves so much careful attention to inner truth, is notoriously stressful on marriages and on dating relationships.

The challenges of the midlife project are echoed in the typical questions asked me as a dating-at-midlife expert:

?Learning to reconcile what you say with what you do. This challenge is echoed in questions like: Why does he say this when he does that? What is really happening?
?Learning to create your own dreams instead of being the victim of someone else's. This challenged is echoed in questions like these: How do I say that I don't want to xyz? I've been lying about some things and what should I do now?
?Learning to live a life that suits you. This challenge produces questions like Is what I'm doing normal? What if my kids think I'm crazy? How can I say that this is starting to bother me?

A person doing Midlife Transformation Work needs to develop 1) A Working Vision, 2) Skills and Strategies to realize that vision, and 3) External sources of support for the project. My role for people is to be part of the support system. I help people clarify their visions, develop the strategies and skills they need, and I help them review their progress.

Education/Credentials
M.A. Counseling Psychology
Ed.D. Counsulting Psychology (Family Therapy)

You are here: Experts > Parenting/Family > Step-Parenting > Divorce Issues > boyfriend and his exwife spending time together

Divorce Issues - boyfriend and his exwife spending time together

Expert: Philip Belove, Ed.D. - 11/1/2009

Question
QUESTION: My boyfriend of a year and a half has a daughter with his Ex- wife. They still do family things together and this hurts my feelings. I know that he is not having sexual relations with her but It makes me feel left out. Him and his ex wife still go on family vacations including still staying in the same hotel room. They go trick or treating go to fairs and he even goes to their house for all of the holidays. He has yet to spend a single holiday with me and my daughter. My daughters father has passed away and while my new boyfriend is good to my daughter and she adores him. I often feel that it is as if we are seconds and he does not have time for us. He does not tell his daughter that we are a couple and while we are generally pretty happy together every time a holiday comes up I get upset and seem to be hurt that he does not have time for us. He blames the spending time with the exwife and his daughter on the fact that it is for the sake of his daughter and he sees nothing wrong with it. While I can not compete with the fact that he had a 10 year relationship with her and they were married. Of course, I hate to think I am jealous but somehow I feel hurt. I can not compete with the fact that he is tied to this woman for the rest of their lives. Yes marriage is death do us part but I would imagine there is some way to solve this so that my boyfriend and I do not have to part. I do not think it is normal for an ex wife and ex husband to still go on family vacations and continue to spend time in the presence of his daughter to the extent that he does. It makes me uncomfortable. The exwife has not dated and moved on and they have been divorced about 6 years. Everytime his daughter calls him up and asks him to do something like go on a vacation or come to a party at their house he says his daughter asked him to go and its for her. I think if the ex wife had a new boyfriend this pretending to be a family again would stop. I have tried to discuss it with my boyfriend and he just firmly states this will never change. I am not really sure what I can or should do at this point. I am very hurt by this as it has been going on for the entire relationship. This ex wife hurt him badly and it has deeply affected his ability to trust me now that the relationship has progressed and he does trust me but now he seems unwilling to committ himself completely and is unwilling to move in with me and my daughter or talk about marriage. What do you think about this? I can see that his exwife manipulates him and has kept his from seeing his daughter. He has stated that he has gone on this vacation becasue that is the only way he can get to spend so much time with her. It makes me sick thinking about him sharing a hotel room with them. Do you have any suggestions

ANSWER: Hi L,
That's one of the worst versions of this story I've heard. I have suggestions but I don't like any of them.

I think you have to listen to your own intuitions here. You said it yourself.
Three statements:
1 "I often feel as if we are seconds and he does not have time for us."
2. He states firmly that this will never change. He seems unwilling to committ himself completely and is unwilling to move in with me or talk about marriage?
3. I am not really sure what I can or should do at this point. I am very hurt by this.

In divorce law they call this "irreconcilable differences."

While it's appropriate and important to maintain cordial relationships with the mother of your children, especially when they are growing, it is also important to acknowledge that the divorce is a reality and you are both moving on. This is a divorce that has not finished and you are, in essence, in the mistress position.

This situation strongly tempts you to go all-or-nothing on him and to demand all the time with him. That's a mistake, and you seem to recognize that temptation and resist it. At the same time, you want him to acknowledge what's going on and to give it proper respect by telling his daughter and ex the truth about your relationship.

The mark of the mistress position is the secrecy.

Also, the fact of his secrecy makes what he says to you about his relationship with his ex suspect. Not a good idea to assume that you are getting more and better information about his relationship with her than she is about his relationship with you. Better to assume that it's equal. Or at least to allow for that as a strong possibility.

My sense is that this is an unsustainable configuration and someone is going to break on this one. It might be him, it might be you, it might be his ex...if she knew what was going on.

Telling her could be explosive. Not telling her is to collude in the arrangement. This is huge and I don't know what to tell you to do. If you'd like to arrange for a couple long and thoughtful conversations, maybe we can get further along.

Also, don't blame her for all the manipulations. You are all three manipulating each other like crazy and that includes his daughter...so make it four. I also suspect that you are all four more aware of each other than some players would like to let on.

Do write me your response: drbelove@datingatmidlife.com

This was a strong position for me to take. I'm interested in your response.

Good Luck

Philip Belove, Ed.D.
drbelove@datingatmidlife.com

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Well as a follow up to your prompt response which I thank you for, The ex wife does know about me and I have met her once. Most Saturdays as this is the only time my boyfriend gets off of work my daughter and his daughter and I all four of us do some type of activity together.SO the ex knows about us. I met her once because we dropped his daugther off at her house at the end of the day and she asked if my daughter and I would come in. I know she hears about what a great time we all had and all the fun things we do. He just tells his daughter we are friends although deep down I think my daughter has let her know that we are a couple becasue she once saw us kissing and I also told my daughter he is my boyfriend. The ex and him are in her presence together on this week vacation once a year and in addition he will go to her birthday party at their house and will make a brief appearance on a holiday. He is honest and tells me about it. So there are no secrets. There are times when the ex will say on saturdays that she needs to be picked up later or dropped of earlier due to she has a party at a friends or they have something going on. So this conveniently cuts off his saturday visits at times. I think the mistress feeling is accurate in that he states it wont change or take our relationship to the next level. I am not sure exactly what I should say when i sit down and try to speak with him regarding this because he tends to clam up and not want to talk about it and run in the other direction. He does not speak to the ex during the week it is simply about drop off and pick up. So they are not really friends per say but putting on a facade for supposedly the sake of his daughter he finds this to be healthy for his daughter that he and his ex can get along in front of her do something occasionaly with her. I still have some jealousy I guess. Not that I am trying to defend him but to more clarify the situation. I think you are accurate in that she knows more about me than I would like to let on as I have spent a fair amount of time with their daughter on many Saturday's. Still thought I am thinking it is not appropriate for the ex's to go on vacation for a week stay in the same hotel room with his daughter and leave me hanging. Is this something which youcould comment on. He said he spoke with people and sees nothing wrong with it. It does not seem normal. I also spoke to my mom about it and she said that he is a good man for being able to maintain composure and get along with his ex and that it sounds like he is doing this for his daughter. how do you suggest I try and deal with this.

Answer
Okay. This sounds less extreme than the first way you described it.

I have seen this kind of a situation work, although it takes a bit of denial on the part of
all parties.

So lets say that the ex knows that you two are lovers. So also do the two daughters.
I'm not satisfied that he and his ex have not been occasional lovers. I've seen that happen.

I do expect that there are still some secrets.

At the same time his refusal to speak may be the only way he has of dealing with the situation. As I said, a little denial makes things go more smoothly.

If he is being honest about the relationship with you, then what he is being honest about is it's limitations.

There are lots of facades in this situation.

I think you are making a mistake to pin your argument on whether it's "appropriate" for him to do the vacation. "Appropriate" is a very weak position. In these midlife relationship/ post-divorce relationships, people are creating ways of doing things and there is no "normal." "Appropriate" may mean (you could argue) that you don't ever tell the kids what's really going on.

What's clear and unarguable is that you feel slighted and "left hanging," whatever that means...and it's uncomfortable for you.

Maybe it would help you if you could figure out more precisely what it is that bothers you.

Maybe it's that you wonder, seriously, whether there is any future in this relationship. That's a valid question. The others I've worked with in your situation handled it by resolutely refusing to
think about the future and staying very one-day-at-a-time. It was a discipline they imposed on themselves. That and the rule of monogamy. Otherwise, everything else was possible. The one could spend as much time as necessary with the ex and could even travel. As long as sexual fidelity was strictly guaranteed, everything else was allowed to develop as it wished.

Let me know. Please.

Philip Belove, Ed.D.

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