AboutMadeline Friedman Expertise When you submit a question, let me know that you have read my bio completely by putting at the beginning of your question: "I have read your bio and agree to read and rate your response fairly within three days." Unless you agree to this Virtual Contract, your question will be rejected as I'll know that you didn't take the time to read my bio. Questions re: canine behavior AS IT RELATES TO TRAINING, tricks, and everyday behaviour and interactions and which are NOT related to possible medical conditions ARE WELCOME. I will AUTOMATICALLY REJECT questions of a medical nature which don't relate to training. Questions about itching, sores, oozings, pregnancies, and the like will NOT BE ANSWERED by me. My answers reflect research, extensive experience, and formal, ongoing, self-motivated education in the areas of animal science, hehavioral biology, and behavioural psychology. If you dislike my answer because I've been honest, don't blithely rate me 'down' or say I was impolite when I wasn't. When you ask me a question and get my response, you can expect an honest answer although it may suggest you have work to do. Such isn't a reason to take shots at me in ratings. I am always polite. Your question must make sense, be well structured grammatically and not require that I "decode" misspellings or sentences. If you would like to retain my services in the NYC, NJ, or Palm Beach Co., FL areas, please contact me for training. If I answer within the time frame provided by AllExperts, don't unfairly comment that I didn't answer your question quickly enough. If you have an emergency or feel your dog is behaving in a way which may compromise anyone's well being, call a vet immediately. If your dog dies or is euthanized after I respond to your question, don't lash out and blame me for your dog's death. If your dog seems ill get your dog to a vet ASAP and don't depend on any expert here to save dogs' lives within the generous time frame provided here to respond.
Experience Professional dog trainer and behavior consultant since 2002; professional dog portrait artist and professional painter for over 18 years. Professional State Certified Educator since 1992. Owner and operator of Innovative Reality Dog Training since 2002.
Organizations Was Animal Science Major, Rutgers University; Permanently Certified NJ State Educator Since 1992; AKC Certified Canine Good Citizen Evaluator; multi-species experience with horses, swine, agamids, with primary focus on domestic dog. Please keep questions related to dogs only in this forum.
Publications Chronicle of the Dog, Yankee Dog, local news writings, "Popular Dog" Series magazine - Housetraining issue, quoted in Tonawanda (NY) News, July 2007
Education/Credentials Master's Degree, plus additional undergrad college credits in psychology, and accredited college study in Animal Science.
Awards and Honors Published author on dog training and dog behaviour, and business aspects of dog training. F.I.T. "Commitment to Illustration and Excellence as an Illustrator" award. Second place internationally in Society of Illustrators international art competition. Jellybean Photographics Award (for illustration).
Past/Present Clients Over 2,000 satisfied clients since 2002.
We were hoping to buy 2 male collie crosses brothers from a breeder but we were told by someone that we may have some problems with getting 2 males because they will fight to decide who is the dominant one. So I was wondering whether this is a serious problem so we can't get 2 males or it is a simple problem that we can overcome, we would definetely get them neutered at the age of 6 months.
Thank you for your time.
ANSWER: Hi Emily,
Thanks for choosing me to answer your question at AllExperts.
I don't know who the "someone" was who told you that it's a given that two males will fight. This is untrue. While two males "may" fight, there are many factors that govern whether this will be so, or not. When dogs are pupppies, it may be difficult to predict how they will get along in the future, and there are no guarantees; so you may be taking your chances to some degree. If in the future the dogs do have problems that concern you, you'll be best prepared by figuring out now a game plan that you can live with if the dogs do have serious problems, which may include a plan to keep the dogs separated; rehoming; managing; hiring a behavior consultant to help; etc.
However, rather than be a harbinger of certain gloom and doom, let me suggest some things you can do in order to foster a good relationship between dogs. First, speak to the breeder. If your breeder is reputable and has been breeding for a long time, AND knows about canine behaviour, he or she can better inform you.
Make sure if you decide to adopt two pups together that they seem compatible at this point in time. Here are some things to look for in order to gauge whether the pups willingly play together and have a play style that seems compatible: a willingness on both pups' parts to play together; frequent stops and starts while playing; relaxed and happy body language between the dogs, including the dogs seeming to 'smile' while playing; if accidentally nipped too hard while playing, the dogs stop playing briefly and then seem to play more cautiously. Red flags would be things such as one dog frequently wants to continue to play, while the other dog doesn't; one dog tries to hide from the other dog during play attempts or play sessions, meaning that the 'offending' dog's play style may be a bit over the top for the dog attempting to hide. In general, what you want to see is happy and relaxed body language while playing; frequent stops and starts in playing, meaning that the dogs are constantly evaluating that play is okay between them and gauging the mood of the other dog; and, after play, the dogs willingly hang out together and seem happy and relaxed with each other, although perhaps tired (and, a tired dog is a good dog!).
To further foster a good bond between two dogs, make sure that the presence of one always predicts good things for the other. A really great book that will give you some tips and prevent problems before they start is "Mine" by Jean Donaldson. Although it was written to address problems once they've started, I think it's a great book to utilize to prevent problems before they occur, which is MUCH easier than addressing problems once they've begun.
As far as "dominance" goes, household dogs don't follow a fixed or linear hierarchy of "dominance." I have yet to see any dog in a household that controls all the resources. What is more typical is that in some instances one dog seems to rule over certain items; and, in other instances the other dog or dogs seem to be able to control resources from the other dogs that are most important to them.
I've owned male dogs together continuously for 15 years with few issues, and currently am owned by two males, aged three and seven years. Although there's the occasional brief scrap between them over some resource, which is normal, no dog ever hurts the other dog, the scraps are over quickly, and the huge majority of the time they get along great and love each other's company, cuddling together and playing together on a daily basis. It may help you to know that I NEVER leave my dogs alone in my home together when there's no one to supervise. They're separated but in sight of each other until someone returns. I just don't think it's worth the potential risk, and this has been my habit for many years.
If you're very concerned and want to start out on the right foot (paw...?), I would suggest meeting with a trainer that has behavioural experience for a basic series of lessons or for a couple of hours to evaluate the dogs and to give you some additional tips on fostering peace and harmony between them.
I would love to hear an update in a few months. Feel free to write in!
Best regards,
Madeline at AllExperts
www.ny-njDogTrainer.com
Blog: ForAllTheAnimals.ning.com
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thank you so much for your answer it really helped us.
We were also told that a reputable breeder wouldn't consider selling us two siblings together is this true or would it be better to get one collie cross male and when it is about 6 months old then buy another collie cross male?
Thank you for your time.
Answer Hi Emily,
I'm really glad to read that you value and have benefitted from my response to your first two questions. I look forward to seeing your compliment reflected in your rating of me. :-)
As far as breeding questions go, I really defer to reputable breeders on those. The advice I gave you earlier in response to your fist two questions applies whether you get two dogs from the same litter or two dogs from different litters at different times.
That being said, and FWIW, I would personally question a breeder who says on the one hand that getting two pups from the same litter isn't a good idea, but would be willing to sell you two pups from the same litter. To me, that would be a huge red flag about the breeder. If any breeder were talking out of both sides of their mouth to me in this manner, I would search for another breeder. For me, breeders should evaluate adopters as well as agencies evaluate potential adopters of children.
Thanks much, and do please update down the road on what you decide on how it goes!
