Expert: Deborah Dray - 10/27/2008

Question
QUESTION: Hi Deborah,
         I met my boyfriend nearly a year ago now..We have fallen madly in love and want to be together
Hes such a loving caring man..
 I have been to egypt twice now to see him, and hes asked me to marry him and move there to be with him..
 The thing is , he is already married with 2 children, which i did not know about in the beginning..
 He does not love his wife, and said he would never leave her at first, because of his children..but now he wants to leave her and marry me, and is trying to resolve the problem about his children,so he can still see them..
  I have met his 2 brothers, but not his mother or sister..
  I said i didnt think his mother would be happy , but he said dont worry, he only has one problem and cares only about his children..
  He has a good job, he is a stunt coordinator and actor..
  Im just a bit scared because i have a 3 year old son, also i will have to become muslim...
 I love this man sooo much, can you give me some advice please
         Thankyou Nadine



ANSWER: Dear Nadine

I would be very reluctant to give you advice on the basis of a few paragraphs from you. I will try to amplify a little on what you already know, though.

Your husband may find it difficult to have his visitation rights enforced when he leaves his wife until the children are old enough that he gets custody of them by law. His only leverage with his ex-wife could be that she needs him to continue supporting her. Bear in mind of course that he doesn't necessarily have to leave his wife, he can have more than one. Equally, though, his wife is entitled to divorce him if he marries another.

Unromantic though it is, I would suggest you have a look at whether you will be able to give your son the life you want for him in Egypt. You should look at the cost of schooling, especially if you want him to go to an International school. You may not want to commit to a lesser educational establishment without thoroughly investigating the quality of the education he'll be getting. Children are often beaten at some teaching institutions. As a very rough rule of thumb, consider that salaries are around 1/10th of what one might earn doing the same job in the UK or USA. Don't discount the possibility that you could be supporting yourself financially in Egypt. There are also the considerations of getting around. Facilities are few and far between and you have already seen perhaps that the roads are extremely dangerous in Egypt and normal buses and taxis do not have seat belts or air conditioning. It is expensive to buy a car in Egypt as taxes are very high. These may or may not be important factors for you.

I have no idea of your personal circumstances at home but I feel I should also mention the case of a foreign lady I know who lost her 2 children, similarly aged, to her Western ex-husband when she married a very respectable Egyptian man because the father argued in court that they would not be treated well by an Arab step-father in an Arab country.

My view is always that it is far harder to settle in a new relationship in a strange environment if you have to manoeuvre with a child. However, until you have other children with your boyfriend (which makes the situation that much more complicated) you can always pack up and go home with your son if it doesn't work out. I think, technically, a husband can prevent his wife leaving Egypt but then I think, again technically, he can bar her from leaving the house and in practice I've never heard of either actually happening to a woman holding a Western passport so I wouldn't dwell on that too much. (Still, I am making a note to myself to check this point of law, for the sake of being able to comment comprehensively on such issues.)

Finally, I am a little concerned that you say you "have" to become Muslim and that you are a bit scared about it. The fact that you feel that way implies you have a lot more adjusting and discovering to do before making important decisions. Two visits is so little.

Thank you for sharing your question with us. I wish you a happy future, whatever you decide!

Debbie

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Debbie,
         thanks for replying to me ..Im sorry i didnt give you much to go on , ive never wrote anything like this before, i didnt want too end up going on and on !!
 I feel soo down at the moment , because everything i read about this subject seems soo negative!.I feel soo sorry for the genuin egyption men !
  Ive never had much look in love , i always seem to go for the wrong men and end up getting hurt !
   my boyfriend is such a beautiful man, soo loving caring and kind..He says he is soo happy and lucky that we have been braught together, and says he loves me more than his life...
   I feel sad for him that he didnt love his wife and married her....
  I have no family in England, as my parents passed away ,i only have one sister in Germany...
   My son doesnt really see his daddy much, as he lives 40 or so miles away from were we are, He just hasnt bothered much , which is ashame !
   My boyfriend has just recently told me that he wants his children to live with him not his wife as he doesnt want too leave them..he is trying to resolve this, but he said he needs time..I dont know if this is possible for him?..
    When i say im scared, i mean more for my son really, his life is in my hands till hes older.. I dont want too mess it up for him, but at the same time i love this guy soo much i cant bare to be apart from him...I cant leave him i just cant !..I feel soo torn !.
     We both have no plans for children together..ive just turned 40, and hes 31...
      If i do marry him , he asked for me to convert to muslim..do i have a choice in this matter or not ?.
      Its not that i mind converting, because i love him and respect his religion...Agen its more to do with my son and what would be expected of him....
       I really need too find out everything i can before i make this life changing decision..why does it have too be soo complicated
       We love each other at the end of the day, that should be enough !
         Thankyou agen    Nadine


Answer
Dear Nadine

I have been thinking how best to respond to you in a way to do justice to your circumstances. It's a complicated situation and email is so inadequate. Nevertheless, I'll do what I can to give you more information on certain points.

Yes, some Egyptian men are genuine in their affections. They are not all cads. Many end up being cads by accident, simply because what we consider to be "good" behaviour is not the same as what an Egyptian woman considers to be "good" behaviour. There is frequently a mismatch in expectations from the partners in a mixed culture marriage, despite the best will in the world on both sides.

It's very common for Egyptian men to be emotionally estranged from their wives. In their haste to marry (intimacy being forbidden before that event) the partners do not always have a lengthy courtship before marriage. Later they find that they are incompatible on various levels.

I can't speculate about how easy it would be for the father to get custody. It depends on the ages of the children. The mother can contest it in court.

It's probable you need to convert to Islam to have a marriage under Islamic (not Egyptian) law. Under Egyptian law I'm pretty sure that you do not need to convert. There are legal and tax benefits to converting so check those out. Why not go to see a lawyer to find out your exact rights? You should ask your husband the question of your son's religion. An Egyptian child has their religion written on their birth certificate. In school the child receives either a Moslem or Christian education. I don't know how your son would be perceived. Best to get these things out on the table, you don't want to have an argument later over whether your son be circumcised.

Initially, love does conquer all, yes! Unfortunately, once the euphoria of romantic love is replaced with that different, longer term love based on companionship, support and respect, any problems will surface. I reiterate; you have both grown up with different expectations from a marriage.

I can't help my mind getting sidetracked with other problems you may encounter. Older Egyptian children often boss younger ones about and pick on them. You have no way of knowing if your boyfriend's children, resenting you as the "cause" of the marriage break-up, would take it out on your son over the years. This would create an intolerable atmosphere at home, I imagine. Furthermore, you haven't mentioned how your boyfriend feels about your son, about their relationship or about your feelings about Egypt as your new home country.

If you are prone to getting into the wrong relationships, this one will be that much more painful and complicated to resolve so please do as you say, try to find out everything you can. It really does take years to fully appreciate the differences but do your best. Discuss all your concerns with your boyfriend to discover his views, too.

If you would feel better having a telephone conversation rather than a continued email exchange, I do offer a chargeable telephone counselling service. Email me at allexperts@egyptianshop.com for more information about this, if you are interested.

You may email me again but if this is the last correspondence we might have I want to give you some "bottom line" sign-off advice:

* Maintain financial independence and access to your funds. Once you have a foreign resident visa you may open a bank account in your sole name. Keep a UK address, perhaps using a friend's home, and a credit card so you have access to funds in the meantime.

* Make sure you have the ability to get around so you are not isolated and can make and maintain friendships with other foreign women.

* Ensure you always use adequate contraception. Abortion is illegal in Egypt and in Islam.

* Make contingency plans for the worst case scenario. It's not uncommon for women to run out of money and be stuck in an unpleasant situation with their husbands. The British Embassy does no more than make a very token effort to "assist" such cases. Perhaps their hands are tied (helping you leave the country without your husband's permission is potentially a criminal act. For the same reason you won't get much help from anyone else inside Egypt.)

* Set your important ground rules and don't feel coerced into budging. A wife in Egypt is expected to "obey" her husband. In practice that means he gets the final say, but until you are married, your boyfriend isn't the only one who can lay down the law. Neither of you wants to only discover those areas where you simply cannot agree AFTER you've tied the knot.

I hope you get to spend plenty of time in Egypt so you can get used to things a little more before making final decisions.

Best wishes
Debbie