AboutWill Expertise Three phase electic motors, controls and related problems or failures, three phase motor installation issues, performance issues, connections, data and duty cycle information. All other electic motors. Specialty motors, repair concerns, performance concerns, obsolete motors and solutions. Other specialty equipment issues. Lost nameplate data and identification, lost connection data.
Also DC motors of all types.
See my profile under Home/electrical at this site
Experience 30 plus years in the electrical motor and apparatus repair industry. VP level management of repair facilities, current owner of my own specialty repair and consulting firm.
Organizations EASA, IBEW [retired], other specialty organizatons, Lubrication, Vibration EDI, Triboelectric Councils
Publications Currently fielding concerns at this site under "Home Electrical"
Education/Credentials 4 year technical, College level specific courses, EASA repair courses, vibration analysis electronic and electrical trade school.
Expert: Will Date: 6/8/2008 Subject: looking for a fast dc motor for vehicle use
Question well im building a motorcycle with a hybrid system that is based off of old parts. already installed is an old go cart gasoline engine and roiling chassis built from scratch. im looking to add in an electric dc powered motor. im thinking maybe air conditioner or washing machine motors could work for me. the engine must carry 300lbs. have a good Rpm speed for good acceleration and i suppose variable phases are good. i must be able to find controller for this too. must be similar to Etek or Pmac motors..check out this link. http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/etek_motors.html
im not an electronic expert but i suppose wattage doesnt matter, anything thats cheap and can be found for about 200$ and is worth the buck please let me know.
my ideal specs would be 12v-96v can run at over but starts at that range. runs at more then 3,000rpm, more like 6,000 is better yet. cheap can be found in household appliances and is relatively small like a pancake motor or can sit on a motorcycle. not necessarily have to be reversible. more then HP. let me know if this is a difficult find and please advise me another solution. max price range 300$..
Thank you i really appreciate it.
Answer Herbert,
I am a huge supporter of those who do, or try to do, or get off their duff and do something, even if they fall flat.
Prepare to fall flat.
Are we talking motorcycle or scooter, sounds like scooter, from the fact the internal combustion engine is from a go cart.
Next, ever seen a washing machine motor run 6000 RPM?
Ever watched a show called Myth Busters on TV? If not go to their website and check out the episode where they build an electric car.
I am glad you wrote because this will help many people attempting to do the same thing.
NOW I AM NOT AGAINST THE ATTEMPTING PART, IT IS THE PLANNING PORTION THAT NEEDS SOME THINKING.
You can skip through below and I will answer you question as written at the end.
If you go to a kmart, wall mart, some kind of mart, you will find electric powered scooters.
Some of them have 6000 RPM motors on them, not washing machines, not air conditioners.
If you have a go cart internal combustion engine then you have some kind of lawn mower engine, you don't say but generally they are rated in the 5 to 20 HP range, depending on if it is a rider or not.
So depending on what you are going to do with the electrically powered portion of this dual power-plant machine [hybrid motorcycle], one, if you expect it to perform the same as the go cart engine,, you need an electric motor that produces the same HP as the internal combustion engine, AT SOME UNKNOWN RPM.
Now if you are just using it to coast around a bit, then a scooter motor will get you going, depending on the size and weight of the "motorcycle", remember the scooter at "walll marrt" is not made to push around itself AND a fueled engine, AND THE RIDER.
So first thing you have to do, is get everything down to some kind of common denominator, are both power plants going to work independently?
Is one going to assist the other, is the electric for low speed trips, parking, so on?
Where and what is your transmission? Belts, chains, gears?
It is all about HP AND EFFICIENCY, the go cart will burn gas, I am assuming, the electric motor is going to need batteries or need a generator off the internal combustion engine to run the electric motor, commonly known as an MG SET.
MOTOR-GENERATOR OR ENGINE-GENERATOR,, where a combustion engine or electric motor drives another power plant, WHICH DRIVES SOME KIND OF ENGINE OR MOTOR.
I hate to see you spend money on any kind of pancake motor, or this crap that is all over the Internet, as people are doing all kinds of things to avoid being ripped off by fuel prices.
Why? In addition to the gas crooks, now we have the crooks who know that VERY THING IS HAPPENING, and will sell anyone anything, promise anything, they know it won't work, they are taking advantage of your weakened position.
My son has two scooters, one gas powered and one electric, both were built or rather Rebuilt and redesigned by me.
I am not sure which one is faster, it already scares me to ride either one, they go so damn fast, but THEY ARE aluminum junk alloy light weight frames, not safe, but light, so I could get some go out of both of them. If I hitched one behind the other, when the gas engine scooter ran out of gas, he could swap the order of the hitches and don't I then have a "hybrid'?
HERE IS THE PROBLEM THAT MOST DON'T UNDERSTAND. SAY A CAR RUNS ON ELECTRICITY, GREAT NO GAS PUMP, BUT THE ELECTRICITY COMES FROM SOMEWHERE AND THAT IS GENERALLY UTILITY POWER, AND GUESS WHAT, THE BATTERIES HAVE TO BE CHARGED AND THAT IS DONE BY MAYBE, AND USUALLY A COAL FIRED POWER PLANT, MAYBE A GAS FIRED TURBINE OR MAYBE A NUKE, BUT BY THE TIME WE GO THROUGH ALL THE TROUBLE OF BURNING COAL, BOILING WATER, SPINNING A TURBINE, MAKING ELECTRICITY, DELIVERING IT, MONITORING IT, TRANSFORMERING IT UP, THEN DOWN FOR NORMAL HOUSEHOLD USE, CHARGING BATTERIES, WE RUN INTO THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE OF ALL
EFFICIENCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WE SPENT MORE ENERGY DELIVERING THE ELECTRICITY TO CHARGE THE BATTERIES THAN IF WE JUST WENT AND BOUGHT GAS. IT IS JUST A CONVERSION FEEL GOOD THING.
The link you sent me is typical, read the first page of $500 motors, the captions say "want a TON of POWER in a small package, this brushless blah blah send me a check" is all over the page.
WHAT IS A TON OF POWER?
Electric motors are terribly inefficient in and of themselves. The Government passed a law several years ago that motors of a certain HP must meet certain efficiencies, in other words instead of 80% efficient
the motor must be 87%. [RAW NUMBERS I WONT GET INTO ALL THAT JOKE]
Here is the problem with that. [EPAC] An electric motor in order to obtain a rated or "required" efficiency has to be attached [read the small print on an "energy efficient motor"] to the exact RATED load, ie: 100HP must be attached and properly aligned, to exactly 100 HP of load, must be ran at the duty cycle on the motor, constant, 75% whatever, it must be powered with the exact voltage on the nameplate within a SMALL tolerance, say 480 volts must be within 3% of that, PLUS OR MINUS, the three legs of the three phase power must be balanced PLUS OR MINUS 1 OR 2%!, and not full of SIGNAL trash, the electrical supply must be at the given frequency, most US stuff is [60 cycles], but utilities will often put out power that is 60.1 cycles or dependent on the situation, 59.9, and that has to do with their cost of producing and transmitting the power, IN THEIR FAVOR.
So think about this,,,,you go buy a 75HP motor........ what load is EXACTLY 75HP? none
Think about it, a fan is exactly requiring 75HP to move 'X' air? no way, it is like 70 or 67 or 78 HP, blows the efficiency guarantee all to hell.
So drop down to a 60 HP, now we are way undersized, there are only so many choices OF MOTOR HP, AND WHO CHECKS IT?????????.
My reason for boring you with all this is that you might get interested in learning some more about hybrid anything, or TONS OF POWER in an advertisement.
So you are not ripped off anymore than we are already.
Now your motor to put on your device for $300.00
Just be careful, if you buy some Tons of Crap and hook it up, they will not take it back, there is nothing in a washing machine that is going to power a motorcycle that is even worth fooling with,, they are AC to begin with, so now you need an inverter to boot.
Here is my advice, go to the store and look at some scooters, do some more reading on efficiencies, batteries, all that.
Finally if you continue on, depending on what size machine you are building go to a scooter store and buy a scooter motor with controls and a battery or two.
I am not throwing a wet blanket on what you are doing, just don't go get ripped off.
I will provide some links for you to look at.
I hope you do study more, and maybe you discover something a million people have missed.
And good for you for getting out there and trying to resolve a problem instead of waiting for the Government to solve our issues.
