Electric Motors/Replacement part for Silent Flame Motor
We have a 1662 Silent Flame wood burning Fireplace insert. One of the fans is about to give out. We need a replacement fan or motor if they come together. The number on the blower is RMR Corp. Type R
R16CCW282MD. Do you know where we can find one?
Pat, a 1962 Silent Flame with a single RMR motor with direct drive squirrel cage motor.
The basic answer to your question is you don't. You can try EBAY< but PLEASE be careful buying anything like an electric motor off EBAY, Craigslist, or even Graingers.
Most sellers know less about motors than the buyer. Frame sizes, mounting bolt cc dimensions are off, the mounting bolts are too short, too long, wrong period, the speeds do not match,
[note if the existing motor speeds are 1880, 900, and 450 RPM, exact does not have to be on the money, you can normally get by with maybe 10% tolerance plus or minus, but you really need to know the amperage for all speeds, and the correct voltages,
most are what most refer to as 110, 110 is rare to find in any utility voltage now days, most often you will find 115 up, I constantly measure my household voltage, and it runs around 118, but ranges from 109 to 121 depending on the time of year, and time of day,
More confusion, because a motor rated at 115 volts @ 1 amp, when energized with 121 volts, could use .75 amp, because the design of the motor "likes" a bit higher voltage, or it could break the "knee" of the curve, where the saturation point is reached at 116.5 volts and anything above that, could cause the motor to draw 1.5 to 2 amps, way to much and will burn the windings out,
I realize most of these fireplaces, or stoves, are often built in, with the flue running heaven knows where, and to replace the entire box, not just the cost of a new box, but the retrofit can be huge so I understand you are probably dealing with a big issue here.
Some get angry with me, for going into too much detail, [the world has dumbed down to 140 characters and anything past that, is overwhelming]
So I put the answer at the top, there is no exact plug in replacement I know of, for an RMR motor, just too many configurations and again I know of no one, that sells a cross referenced RMR motor or blower by model or part number.
If the Buck stove motor, [Fasco sometimes has a motor that would be closer but the Buck stove motor has been found to be useable as a generic probably as often as any] $97.00 to $200 depending.
NEXT if you dig through the site that has the Buck Stove motor and go to the drop down menu, where you can find parts and motors, they sell a blower and controller kit, which has to be modified into your specific stove, it can be done, but again at what amount of work is it reasonable, PLUS I WOULD NEVER PAY $400 for a new blower and control that is simply generic.
NEXT are you positive the motor is the PROBLEM? Considering the thermostat controls, if a common wire was open, the motor would not come on, but it could be fine, so you need to bench test the motor and confirm the motor is actually failed,
NOW MAYBE YOU DID ALL THAT< no way for me to know, I have to assume you have NOT, if you have good for you, way ahead of most,
We get in motors with the journals and bearings ripped out, worn out, locked up, dry, or pretest and the motor runs like new.
To test the blower [by the way in expectation of removing the blower wheel from the shaft, put some creep oil right at the hub on the motor shaft and let it soak while we decide what the most cost effective fix is and what the problem is,
at least if you have to remove the wheel, it can be soaking for a couple days, making it much easier, with much less chance of breaking the blower wheel or bending the motor shaft [and yes the motor shaft bends without much effort-then you DO have a motor problem]
RMR made a ton of blower motors for many different manufacturers. I have searched for years and apparently no one picked up the design or patent, or decided to replicate this motor.
Not one RMR motor I have ever looked at, is even close to any [one size fits all] standard generic motor, like a Fasco Brand.
Fasco makes a huge variety of motors, some will fit specific brands, others are simply close, requiring some sort of adaption.
Fasco also sells a large variety of mounts, holders, bases, attachments and other pieces and parts, but none are even close to the RMR.
But depending on your skills and access to tools to do some reverse engineering, Fasco uses the body diameter as one of the categories to drill down from. For example Fasco might list 3.3 inch diameter, 3.9 inch 4.6 inch so on, [i used random numbers so as not to confuse or direct you to a specific size that would be incorrect]
Next you need to be aware of how not only the stove controls the blower, but how sq cage blowers work.
Blowers are not FANS. Blowers must be placed in a loop where the intake and exhaust restrictions are somewhat exacting.
A wide open blower will try and move all the air in world through it, the problem with that is the motor will overload. The problem is knowing how to measure the current, having a meter to measure the current, and a meter with a small enough scale to measure very low amperage.
If you were to measure the current of a cage blower wide open rated at say 10 amps it would likely peg a 10 amp scale, but by placing a piece of flat wood or metal over the exhaust would restrict the load, and the amps would drop maybe to 1 or less, so it is important to not only find a motor that fits, the correct number of speeds, but the correct number of exacting speeds,
and to compound the issue, most use low, med, high, as speeds, without identifying the RPM.
According to the 1662 manual, there is a left handed blower, and a right handed blower.
Also some are free standing, some are inserts.
The way I read this 1662 is the blower has options, by setting to auto the thermostats set the speeds of the motor at certain temps, trouble is matching the two speeds, and the 1662 in the schematic says low and med, [and you might find the motor is three speed capable] so high could be HIGH on the motor, or high to the fireplace could be MEDIUM on the motor, or low could be medium, see the issue?
Also you need to be aware, that some motors are three speed motors, some two, some single, and in later years RMR tended to make mostly three speed motors, even if the manufacturer of the stove designed in a one speed.
That way, by making a multiple speed choice motor, they could sell to a variety of applications with one tooling setup,
YOU might ALREADY have the original manual, but in case you do not, here it is:
Someone was kind enough to copy their manual and hang it out there, knowing these things are generally a pain in the butt not real clear but it has the info, and if you have not STUDIED IT, you would be well ahead to do so, here it is:
1. I did find a link to Silent Flame 1662 manual http://www.servicesales.com/images/silentflame_manual.pdf
And about the closet [motor only] is found here [it will be a Buck Stove motor]:
In the pdf manual, link one 1. above, reading through it, it appears the 1662 model is fairly elaborate, as described above, with the thermostats and auto control.
NOTE AND THE MANUAL NOTES THIS ALSO< the left and right hand blowers can be interchanged, BUT YOU MUST KEEP THE OIL/LUBE TUBES UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We repair dozens and dozens of these things, and if any come back they are locked up or torn back up, because the oil wicked out of the tubes pointed down.
So it gets a bit complex,
The wheel is reinstalled in the wrong place on the shaft, this effects the amount of air being pushed, and the running current.
There are BALANCE weights clipped onto most wheels, please try and identify and do not move or lose.
So to recap, first bench test the blower, put a piece of metal, cardboard, whatever kind of plate over the exhaust opening, half of it should be covered to be safe and keep the amperage down, when installed, there may be no plate but the overall distances and tube sizes, bends, so on, create the restrictions, all you are doing on a test is keeping the current in check,
It is a shame to send the motor off to be repaired to find out the thermostats are bad,
We repair the RMR motors, most all are riveted together, not bolted, a huge pain in the butt. We have little alignment fits on the parts, have to fab up some all thread or sometimes can re-rivet the housings, to the main frame, but it is tricky,
Both ends are usually sleeve or plain type bearings, meaning they are simply some sort of bronze sleeve, versus a rolling element [ball] bearing.
We can repair your motor unless for some reason both journals are just worn to nothing, but even then we can press the old shaft out, machine new journals, thrust faces, keyways, so on, and press it back in the rotor.
We have repaired motors from $75.00 t0 $250.00, [that would be the entire motor and blower assembly, we have to deal with removing the cage, all that]
We get them from all over the world, and again about the only returns have the tubes down, we can tell because the journals are all destroyed again, and there is little oil in the reserve these are very easy to install with the lube tubes down, or even at 90 degrees, no lube and the motor fails,
How we do it, send us the motor by mail, make sure you have bench tested the motor and the controls are working, the motor is really bad,
And as you are checking the controls, or bench testing the motor, lube not only the blower hub to shaft, to soak, but lube the motor bearings remove the tubes if so designed and make sure the tubes are not blocked with gunk, soak each end with lighter than 20 weight oil, penetrating oil, turbine oil, something light weight, but hang the motor so the excess lube will drip into some kind of can, jar, aluminum tray, then flip end for end, and lube the other, lube in the late day and let set overnight, while lubing spin the shaft [if not locked up] you might find the next day the locked shaft is now loose,
How to check the wear externally, from the bearings to journals [journals are the machined areas on the shaft where the bearings ride]
Excessive axial play in the shaft [movement of the shaft in and out of the motor housing over a few thousandths is too much] ANY RADIAL motion, that would be the shaft moving "up and down" in relationship to the housing[s] means the bearing bore is worn, the journal or both. It won't work with radial end movement period,
One way to check is with the use of a dial indicator, lock the motor frame to a table, mount the dial indicator to the shaft and lift gently with a large screwdriver or SMALL PRYING bar of some kind, if you read movement in the dial indicator, analog or digital, worn something,
So read over the manual, it is hard to read, but measure your outside body diameter, see how it mounts in the blower, if the spacing of the bolts of a Buck motor or Fasco works great, now check your speeds and amperages and if those are close, you might have something, but honestly their intentions were to capture the replacement parts business, made a semi throw away motor, and when it failed you had one option to buy a new motor or blower or both, that was plug and play,
If you want to try and design your own new blower motor, assembly, try looking for a FASCO, distributor, in your area, Johnstones, a motor repair shop, some place that will help you, Grainger is helpful, but mostly likes to have a part number they rarely help with retrofits, but if that is all you have well that is all you have,
Shipping to our address has never been much and NOW IS THE TIME TO get the blower working not DECEMBER when it is -40.
Most blower assemblies I think were costing $30 bucks average, we are square in the middle of the country, so not much difference from wherever,
On arrival, we do a visual inspection, loosen any locked shafts if possible, test the insulation, if it tests safe, we energize the motor using a variable AC power supply to match the data plate voltage, measure the current, run horizontally, vertically, up and down, disassemble, internal visual inspection, repair bearings and journals, spray insulate the windings, re attach the end housings with rivets or through bolts, test run at full voltage, ship it back,
On receipt, we do insulation tests, test run when possible, send you an estimate before disassembling, again we mark or tag or both the oil wicks must be UP< when installed and under power,
Again, typical costs, $75 to $205.00, or whatever is comfortable above that, most stoves go for several thousand, plus install, plus code upgrades, plus the mess, plus plus, a generic blower on the Buck site is $400 and needs converted into the existing controls
And that will require someone who understands thermostat auto speed controls, to me I say a manual speed control, on and off, control is adequate, the auto never seems to produce the right room temps, with too many pieces and parts to fail, on off fast slow, seems to work the best,
If you want, simply pack the blower, put contact info in the BOX send an email to email@example.com. let us know it is coming and the tracking number or post office number, we will look over, send you a break down of the issues, a cost, and let you decide,
MEAR Services Inc, 302 South Hudson, Buckner Missouri, 64016
816-650-4030 OfFICE PHONE CENTRAL TIME< 816-650-4061 FAX ATTENTION shop repair, be SURE TO PUT CONTACT INFO IN THE BOX
If you decide to retrofit this yourself, let us know, we will try and help the best we can, use the firstname.lastname@example.org email address, no charge, and no charge for phone help, even if we do no work for you, as long as it doesn't tie us up for an unreasonable amount of time.
We know it is normally a tough issue, a bricked in, trimmed in firebox with no good way to replace it, NOW ONE THING< this model is older, 70s? and not that efficient, so if you can find any gaskets, seals, especially doors, replace them, Hanna Rubber is a nation wide gasket company, and there are others that make parts by sample, so if the parts are obsolete, don't leave gaps and leaks in the system, dangerous and not efficient,