AboutMaster Bob Expertise Master Electrician / Owner RKO Electric (USA Only) - can answer most of the typical residential, commercial and industrial electrical questions regarding new installations, wiring additions, lighting, switches and receptacle outlets and electrical upgrades of any nature.I will make every effort to respond to your questions as soon as possible at the end of the work day...very busy electrical company - your patience is appreciated. Stop by and see us at: www.rkoelectric.com
Experience Licensed Master Electrician with over 32 years licensed experience - updated with the latest NEC Codes every 3 years. Over see the daily electrical operations of two electrical companies. Also serve as a judge (for Electrical Contracting Products Magazine) to help select which new products are fit and safe for electricians and the electrical market.
Question Hello,
I am selling my house and the buyers are insisting that I need to pay to upgrade all non-gounded circuits (about 2/3) in my 1920s house. They are saying it is against code and illegal. I am saying that for new wiring/new construction all circuits must be grounded, but there is nothing wrong/illegal with existing 2-wire circuits in an existing home. Otherwise, half the houses in the country would be condemned.
Can you please clear up the matter, and provide reference to any code documentation saying existing 2 circuit wiring is legal?
Thanks and regards,
Mike L in PA
Answer Hi Mike,
Sorry for any delay....been working some LONG hours down-state....computer time has been very limited as of late..
For anyone to claim the older 2 wire non-grounding is "illegal"...is just plain wrong....it WAS perfectly legal several decades ago...and was in fact...Code approved at that time. However....for one to say it is highly out-dated..is an acceptable statment...to which I fully agree....and clearly it does not meet with today's electrical Codes.
BUT - the Code permits " grand-fathering"...and under those conditions YOU are correct...there is nothing illegal with 2 wire in an existing home (as long as ALL that work was up to Code back when the place was wired decades ago..) Any actual violations( not counting the fact that it is 2 wire non-grounding ...which with in itself is NOT a violation) you are generally obligated to correct in order to sell this home....including damaged wire (due to age), improper service size (some older homes had 60 amp fused services which are no longer permitted...minimum of 100 amps now),etc.
Unfortunately...there is NO direct Code reference stating that 2 wire is legal or illegal...just that it can no longer be installed in NEW homes...older homes being grand-fathered....and ANY new work in this home MUST be grounded. What complicates the matter is you say only 2/3rds of this home is non-grounding...telling me that some new circuits have been since been added or upgraded to 12/2 with ground romex or the equivalent.
There are some limited sections of the Code that reference 2 wire non-grounding circuits and what IS illegal with them...such as 406.3 (D) (3) which states that non-grounding receptacles MUST be used on 2 wire circuits that have no ground available - so if ANY 3 prong grounding receptacles have since been installed on these 2 wires circuits...then that IS a violation and it MUST be corrected. (however - you are permitted to install a 3 prong GFCI on these circuits as long as the label "No Equipment Ground" is attached to the cover plate)
BUT - there is no specific section of the Code that states 2 wire non-grounding circuits are illegal in existing homes....because it is allowed to remain as long as the integrity of the wiring is solid...and 2 prong non-grounding receptacles are properly installed....and all other Code conditions are met. Just The fact that it is mentioned in the above 2005 NEC article makes it permitted. Any new circuits that are added to this home (making them clearly not "existing")...MUST be 3 wire grounding type.
So....the bottom line Mike - is - you are 100% correct...the 2 wire circuits that "exist" are permitted to remain (as long as all the above are met)...because they met the then current Code in place at the time the home was wired. But - with that said...I personally wouldn't buy a 2 wire home..and would also insist on the update...we KNOW it is outdated and not nearly as safe as today's 3 wire grounding systems....which is why the Code changed the requirements to 3 wire grounding over the decades....but that applies to NEW homes built and wired AFTER the Code changes....your 1920 home is clearly grand-fathered. Your local inspector should also be able to verify that there are no Code violations (as long as there are none) in this home....and simply state that the wiring is outdated. Not "illegal" by any stretch.
And your comment "half the houses in the country would be condemned" is an understatement...more like 2/3rds...there are still a tremendous amount of older homes across the USA that have 2 wire circuits....we see it all the time....as well as houses that have half and half. (some of the homes here in Bangor where built back in the 1800's...especially Stephen King's home and all the homes on his street - late 1800's/early 1900's mansions)
Of course...the main concern here is understandably the expense of upgrading all the circuits to 3 wire grounding...and changing out all the receptacles (and often switches too if non-grounding) over to today's grounding style devices. We do this work quite often and it can be a major undertaking and time involved process with some older homes just fishing the new wire...unless the owner guts the walls (usually plaster/lathe style in old homes) and ceilings which makes it a breeze. But....I've found from hands-on experience that this electrical upgrade adds significant re-sale value to the house...and typically more then pays for itself in that manner....especially when a full upgrade is done (new service, new panel ,AFI,GFCI's, etc)
Naturally...if you do pay to have the electrical upgrade the buyers want (and I don't blame them..) that cost can be added to the selling price...and now you can advertise the home as "recently 100% electrically updated - New service - new 200 amp panel, all new wiring, etc !"....which are very attractive selling points when your looking at a 87 year old home. We've upgraded some older homes that had been on the market for some time...and they sold right after we finished the work....at a higher price....so I've personally seen the bargaining power that an electrical upgrade has on the sale.
But - as long as all other electrical Code conditions are met...there is NOTHING illegal with the 2 wire in your home...it's just unattractive with it. As a professional...I highly recommend the upgrade....and where it not only increases the overall safety and value of this home - but will help you sell it...it's a win-win scenario....makes the buyers happy and good-bye house.
The choice is clearly yours....how bad do you want to sell this home..? Hope this helps Mike...if you need more details...please follow-up. If you should find me "maxed out"...please use the email below.
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