AboutTed Nesbitt Expertise I have an interest in the meanings of words and phrases, as well as how and when they became part of the English language. I enjoy
researching idioms, colloquialisms, dialects, and obscurities of
all kinds. I prefer short questions on a particular subject, and
I will not accept lengthy research projects or term papers. NOTE: ALLEXPERTS CLAIMS THAT I TRANSLATE FROM ENGLISH TO LATIN AND FROM LATIN TO ENGLISH. I DO NOT. ALLEXPERTS REFUSES TO DELETE THE LATIN-TO-ENGLISH SERVICE -- ONE THAT I DO NOT PROVIDE.
TRUST ME ON THIS: ALLEXPERTS IS WRONG. I DO NOT TRANSLATE FROM ENGLISH TO LANGUAGE. LOOK FOR A LANGUAGE EXPERT INSTEAD. ETYMOLOGY AND TRANSLATING SERVICES ARE ENTIRELY DIFFERENT. ALLEXPERTS SHOULD KNOW THAT. ALLEXPERTS DOES NOT KNOW THAT. I HAVE TRIED FOR MANY YEARS TO GET THEM TO CHANGE. THEY WILL NOT. SORRY, BUT I DO NOT TRANSLATE FROM ENGLISH TO LATIN.
Experience I am the bibliographic instruction and reference librarian at a public
college. My master's thesis concerns William Faulkner's tragic novels. I formerly taught advanced placement English at two schools in the Philadelphia area.
I have been a member of the grammar and writing section of Allexperts
for more than a year.
Education/Credentials Masters degrees in English, philosophy, and library science.
Question I'm a bit confused. AllExperts provides a link to you stating you'll answer questions regarding the meaning/origin of words & colloquialisms. Yet you've announced above that you no longer accept questions. Do I ask or don't I? (a bit reminiscent of The Lady or The Tiger?) Ah well, the worst you can do is assume I'm semi-literate.
QUESTION:
Can you tell me, please, the origin & meaning of "more fun than a barrel of monkeys"?
Answer Barbara:
I have taken a leave of absence from Allexperts, for two reasons: (1) the rudeness of several of the questioners I have had [you wouldn't believe some of the responses I have received when my FACTS do not coincide with their BELIEFS]; and (2) because 3/4 of the questioners do not have the courtesy to respond, once I send an answer. I used to send the answer over and over again, because I have no way of knowing if it has been received, unless the questioner completes the evaluation form -- a kind of "thank you note," requiring the clicking of the questioner's mouse a few times. Several questioners SHOUTED at me, saying that I was paid well by Allexperts and didn't need a "thank you."
Of course, I am paid nothing for my "volunteering." I guess it is just a sign of our society that people EXPECT a stranger to help them out, but they will do nothing in return.
Anyway, it is NO BARREL OF MONKEYS.
The phrase has been explained in several sources:
From the archives:
barrel-/wagon-load of monkeys phr. [late 19C+] a type that is very cunning, mischievous, jolly or disorderly, usu. in phr. "artful as a wagon-load of monkeys."
From "Cassell's Dictionary of Slang" (1998) by Jonathon Green
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FUNNY AS A BARREL OF MONKEYS - "One monkey arouses a great deal of amusement. Two or more then double the interest and amusement. If one were to release a barrelful (barrel full) of monkeys, we must suppose that their antics would become hilariously comical. The expression is common among children."
From "2107 Curious Word Origins, Sayings & Expressions from White Elephants to a Song Dance" by Charles Earle Funk (Galahad Books, New York, 1993).
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Barbara, the two preceding explanations are OK, but I think they are incomplete. There has been a gradual turn in the application of the phrase. Generally speaking, when we use the phrase today, it indicates that things are NOT funny or happy. In other words, we are making an ironic statement, suggesting just the opposite of "having fun."
The most authoritative source for the etymological of words and phrases in the English language is "The Oxford English Dictionary," the multi-volume collection commonly called The OED. The earliest recorded WRITTEN use of the phrase was "cage of monkeys," in 1840. Of course, the expression most likely was used in SPOKEN English, long before it was ever written in print.
Here is the entry from that source:
31. colloq. a wagonload (also barrel, etc.) of monkeys: used as the type of something extremely clever, mischievous, disorderly, jolly, fun, etc.
In barrel of monkeys, perhaps influenced by barrel of fun (laughs, etc.) s.v. BARREL n.
1840 G. DARLEY Thomas à Becket V. viii. 129 De Traci chatters More than a cage of monkeys: we must wait.
1889 Harper's Bazar 21 Dec. 932/4 My brother..says the American girls are perfectly fascinating... He says they are more fun than a box of monkeys.
1895 W. C. GORE in Inlander Dec. 115 Barrel of monkeys, or bushel of monkeys, to have more fun than, to have an exceedingly jolly time.
1908 W. G. DAVENPORT Butte & Montana 28 This is just more fun than a bag of monkeys.
1930 G. GOODCHILD McLean Investigates xvi. 310 If once we lose touch with Feeny good-bye to the Rajah's ruby. He is as clever as a cartload of monkeys.
1968 A. POWELL Mil. Philosophers 155 They're as artful as a cartload of monkeys when it comes to breaking the rules.
1978 G. VIDAL </help/bib/oed2-v.html> Kalki ii. 24 Christianity was never exactly a barrel of monkeys when it came to the here and now.
1986 Times 28 Apr. 31/6 Plot-wise, it is as mischievous as a wagon-load of monkeys. 1996 People (Electronic ed.) 2 June, Knows loads about loads of sports. Clever as a barrowload of monkeys.
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So, you have the monkeys in cages, boxes, bags, bushels, carts, AND barrels. The container chosen probably depends on what is used most often in the particular geographical region in which the speaker/writer lives.
The meanings are the straightforward one [monkeys perform amusing "antics" and actually are funny] and the ironic one [the "antics" really are NOT appreciated and the result is a real "mess."]
That "mess" could be explained with another phrase, "in a pickle," which has nothing to do with your original question. But pickles also come in barrels.
