AboutMichelle Expertise I can answer/explore questions regarding: coming out; conflicts of faith for both the gay/lesbian person accepting their own sexuality as well as friends/family accepting the sexuality of someone they care about; coming out to your children; talking to your teens about being gay; coming out of a long term opposite sex marriage; history of marriage; legal recognition of same gender marriages; how ultra-conservative religious training/upbringing affects gays, lesbians, bi, trans people--especially teens; why living “out” is the hardest best thing a person can do; current dynamics of religious/political issues.
Experience I was raised in a conservative Christian church, and still am a Christian. From my earliest memories, I always had "crushes" on girls/women, but because of my background and training, believed homosexuality was a "sin" and that I was an abomination. I believed it was a "choice" and was determined to choose heterosexuality. I married a man (claimed to be a Christian, ended up being abusive), had three kids, and was married for 20 years. I attended a Christian college (had devastating crushes there) and at the age of 26 started writing and speaking for Christian groups across the United States and Canada. After fifteen years of teaching others to "remove the masks" I finally peeled away my last mask. I lost my church, my oldest friend, my career, and quite a few people I trusted and loved--but I gained my soul. You can't fool God. I used my experience and twenty-five years of biblical studies to understand how scriptures have been misused. I am now married to a woman (seven years) and active in the gay/lesbian community. I have made myself an expert on same gender marriage issues and legal cases. I am very active in local, state, and national politics
Organizations HRC
Equal Rights Washington
Legal Marriage Alliance
PFLAG
Publications AGLOW Western Horseman
Publisher's Weekly
Two books and hundreds of articles for Christian publishers
Education/Credentials 2.5 years undergraduate
25 years professional writer/speaker (fifteen for religious publishers)
10 years of seminars & workshops
Expert: Michelle Date: 6/4/2008 Subject: Choose God or Life?
Question QUESTION: Hi, I actually wrote yesterday but I've since spent the entire day reading your previous answers. In particular, a few entries in February to a 16 year old girl who's parents are devout christians. Your answers have been wonderful, and in depth enough for me to start my own self-study. It will take time though, and even then, I dont know if I will be able to change my mindset although I know youre right. I have been raised with fundamentalist teachings all my life - I was taught to embrace it as pure truth, and the more I studied the Bible, the more convicted I was that my feelings for the same sex is wrong. From then on (I must have been 15) and for the next 13 years, I have been on this cycle of repentance for what my heart wants, but my spirit wont gratify. Believe me, self flaggelation wouldnt be as painful.
I have let love pass me by, and I live in half shadows of guilt. I always feel unfulfilled and lonely, despite having so many friends. I've been asked out by countless guys, but I'm simply not interested. I date anyway, thinking maybe God will send me someone who will "make me straight" and I can go on with life, not disappointing God or my family by being "the abnormal one". I mask things by talking about and dating men, and playing the clean, Christian straight girl with my friends. I have no gay friends, which doesnt help. I try to extend my social circles but it seems I'm the only one, all my other friends are married, or straight and seemingly happy. I feel like I cant talk to anyone.
So I sit with nothing but a journal to scribble furiously into. Only my journal knows the truth. I am normally a fighter but this is one battle I dont know how to fight. God or life. Michelle, how did you eventually undo the years of wrong teaching? Not a single person knows my true orientation. Only Jesus...and God knows I love Him. I've professed to love Him more than life, and that is why I resigned myself to choosing God or life. I chose God. I serve faithfully in church. Inside, I feel like such a fake.
Only now am I beginning to slightly question things, as it feels so horribly wrong to live in such emptiness. I dont know how long this journey will take or if I'll ever reconcile things within me. Any suggestions?
ANSWER: Hi Susan, I did see the feedback you left with your response to the first letter I sent you so I know that you are starting to open up a little more to the idea that maybe, just maybe, God loves you just the way you are. I understand so well how hard it is to grasp, how hard it is to undo some of the inadvertantly harmful teachings we have ingrained in our minds and yes, on our hearts. It is hard. And I honestly don't think that the people who teach this are malicious, or evil minded...it is the human way. It is the human condition. We need simple explanations for the things that we "don't get", and honestly, a lot of people just don't get how a woman can fall in love with a woman, or be attracted to women. Or a a man can fall in love with a man, and be attracted to men. So, as humans, they project this failure to "get it" as "it must be wrong. And surely God never intended it...but how do we explain that virtually ever species on earth has been observed to have a certain percentage of homosexual members of their species? Even butterflies! There is an almost funny account by a Christian zoologist that clear back in the 1930's made a written observation about some homosexual butterflies...and he was quite clearly disgusted. LOL
There is a passage in the Old Testament that teaches that a woman who does not bleed the first time she has sexual intercourse with her husband, he is to take her back to her father, make the accusation of adultery. The parents are given the opportunity to inspect the bed sheets, and if they find no blood, the father, the husband, and the townsmen are to stone the "guilty" woman to death on her father's doorstep.
With our current medical knowledge, knowledge they didn't have a couple thousand years ago, we know that not all women do not bleed the first time they have sex. So we know that we can't assume whether or not someone is a virgin based on blood on the sheets. Wouldn't our Creator know that? Surely He did. And if you asked any evangelical minister how the Bible, if it is inspired word for word by God, could get it so wrong, how innocent women could have been put to death for something they didn't do, that minister would say, "we have to allow for time, culture, extent of medical knowledge..." But GOD would know, and on something as important as a woman's life, wouldn't God make sure the writer got it right? Wouldn't that be pretty important?
There are many other examples, but they all point to the same thing. Evangelicals DO understand that we cannot and do not take the Bible literally word for word the way we have it today. We understand that time, culture, knowledge, all play a part. And we have to keep things in context.
A very important context, for example, that we were taught in Theology 101 is to understand the author, the writer of each book in order to have a context in terms of their mindset, knowledge, etc. Paul (the author of Romans, the most often used verse in anti-gay rhetoric) is a very interesting guy when you study about him a bit. We know he was single, but a lot of people don't know much more than that and that he was the guy that went blind on the road to Damascus. What many don't know is that the sect of Christians that Paul belonged to considered sex to be dirty, base, and "unnatural." Heterosexual or otherwise. It is why, in 1 Corinthians 7 (and I have yet to hear a sermon in any evangelical church on this part of Paul's writings) Paul says it is better "for a man not to marry" and goes on to say that women shouldn't either...it is better to be single...because it is easier to serve God completely. The only reason Paul gives for someone to marry is if they can't control their lusts--then, to keep from "burning" they should marry. Not for love. Not forming some spiritual triangle between God, Man, Wife...but to keep from burning with lust. When we understand this about Paul, that he didn't even "get" it about heterosexuals, so it is pretty understandable that he didn't "get it" about relationships in general. Straight or gay. And when we also realize that the Bible does not represent the entirety of scriptures that were written, but only the three hundred texts that Caesar Augustus and his hand-picked canonical selecters decided agreed with what they believed was true and Holy, (these were the same guys who later put Capernicus to death for his heretical round earth theory) then we start to understand that maybe we have never been allowed to see the whole picture.
The point I reached at 38, was a crisis not only in my emotions and my hearts, but in my soul. I love God with all my heart and soul. I gave my heart to Jesus when I was twelve, and I have served Him ever since. I came to the crossroads after literally throwing myself on my face for years, begging God to change me, wanting to change, BELIEVING that He could make me straight. And yes, I was absolutely certain I was the only Christian to go through this. I couldn't figure it out...I didn't know any gay people, church was my life, and if I knew anyone who was gay they were as deep in the Holy Closet as I was. So no one "turned" me gay. I didn't watch porn or read it. There simply was no exposure...how could I be gay??? Especially if it was a "choice"...I spent 20 years "choosing" to be straight. I figured when my ex asked me to marry him, that was God FINALLY answering my prayers. I had dated several men, but I actually liked this one, so maybe, maybe this was God's answer. Besides, it came when I was trying to get over my crush on my college roomie. :) I can't tell you how much I hated myself for that crush.
I reached a point then, that I believed one of two things was true...either God was a sadistic monster who COULD change me but just decided not to and then to condemn me to hell for not changing...OR, God never meant for me to change. I was His Creation, and it was "good." I couldn't bring me to believe in a sadistic God, so I started asking, "did God make me this way?"
How long will your journey take? It is lifelong. Always remember that you have been trained for a long time to think and believe certain things. Ever wonder how people can strap on bombs and kill themselves and others for Allah? Because they have been trained and taught since birth to believe that this is what God wants. It is a powerful thing, and difficult to question, much less move away from. Know that some days it is easier to understand and work through than others. Start examining any beliefs you just accepted without study and see which ones can withstand logical and reasonable scrutiny.
It's a tough process, but a good one. It stretches you, it helps you grow. You also will be able to understand the perspectives of both sides of the issue.
One of the best things I figured out along the way is that we are actually in pretty good company. You will have people who tell you there is just no way you can be a Christian and be gay. That they love you, but sorry, you are going to hell. The Bible tells them so. Of course, the Bible also tells southern baptists that Catholics are going to hell. It tells Catholics that protestants are going to hell. In our Nazarene bible studies, we studied the Bible to understand why mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, and Seventh Day Adventists were all going to hell--while they were all learning that the rest of us are going to hell. Do a web search sometime on Billy Graham...just his name, and scroll down through the different websites. You will find massive ones that are dedicated strictly to why Billy Graham is a heretic, a liar, and why he will burn in hell for all eternity.
Leave it up to us humans, and nobody gets in because we all think we know what the Bible says and everyone who doesn't agree with our interpretation is doomed to hell. Other Christians have ALWAYS claimed I was going to hell...long before I came out as gay. It was just harder when they were from my own church after I came out. But really, it was nothing new.
We human beings are interesting creatures. Good thing God didn't leave the keys to Heaven with us...
I'm glad this is helping Susan. Believe me, I do understand your torment. And if I can help your heart not to go through it as long as mine did...then I feel like God has blessed me today.
Write any time...
Michelle
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: It's funny...I have studied the bible since I was about 11, when I gave my heart to Jesus. I was the girl in Sunday school who always knew the answers. I loved the Word of God, and as I grew up I delved deeper. I read my bible alongside Wiersbe's commentaries, various concordance's were on my birthday wish list (I'm such a nerd!) and I loved Jesus with all my heart. When I had my first girl crush, and was old enough to understand it wasnt merely best-friend-affection, I was devastated. I was in my mid teens and like you, I prayed, fasted, cried. I was on my knees "surrendering" my sin, choosing straightness with all my will. I led bible studies and gave talks in youth events, but I led a double life and hated myself. I wondered why God wouldnt take it away. My gay virus. The evil demon that was plaguing me. LOL
I say it's funny not because I've gone away from the Lord. I will choose Him all my life - He still is my reason for being. However, for the first time in my life, (and many thanks to you) I am reading the Word without blinkers on and am slightly more willing to consider ("accept" is too strong a word at this stage) another point of view. Your points have been concise and valid, and I pray that with discernment, I will find the answers I need. Undo-ing is hard at this juncture and yes, I can already see that some days will be harder than others. Some days, I will probably chuck in all in and say this is deception and will repent from having entertained such heretical thoughts. Other days, I will experience what I'm experiencing now. A mix of excitement and trepidation as I'm unravelling a can of worms that is both so freeing and frightening at the same time. I will listen for His voice in all this too. The voices I heard condemning me in the past mostly consisted of my own (and yet how often I did I quote Romans 8:1 to my youth group!!), but now I'm starting to listen more carefully. "Lord, did you make me this way?" I would have thought that blasphemous just a week ago - but it's true - living in hypocrisy is, if anything, worse than this purported sin of loving (albeit of loving the same sex.)
This may seem like a silly question, but is it relevant that some things dont have to be spelled out in order for it to be wrong? One argument I have heard is "why does the bible refer to men and women and marriage, but nothing on same sex relationships? Surely the lack of mention in itself will mean it is wrong and should therefore be discouraged." I know this is predominantly Paulian once again, but to be fair, if you forego all the things taken out of context, it still remains that nowhere in the bible does it expressly condone or mention same sex relationships in a positive light.
The other thing is my existing dilemma with Em. You say you were "propelled" out of the closet - some days I wonder if I should just tell her. I gave her a back rub once - I nearly died too. My heart was literally dancing around with my kidney =) It was all seemingly innocent, of course. I wanted to alleviate her muscle ache and I happen to give good massages. (How convenient!) She consented and I was completely and utterly gone. I'm sure she couldve heard my heart beating! I seem to live for these small moments, and the fraction of time that I feel any mutuality of emotion from her can keep me going for days. Weeks, even.
It is pain and bliss to be with her. I ache to hold her, and yet I act so normal, I scare even myself. She's an insightful person and I'm fairly certain, despite my outward hetero-mask, that she suspects on some level that I could at least be bi. Is it right to assume that if she was interested in the slightest, she would have made a move by now? I mean, some days I can swear she's fighting back feelings, but in as much as we are close, she's not the touchy feely type. I dont have much to go on apart from the small hints here and there (which are few and far between). I dont know if I should drop a slightly stronger hint instead of continuing to play the straight best friend. If I were to hint, do you have any advice as to a good entry level, "hey here's a thought - I could be a lesbian you know..." pitch that wouldnt blow up in my face?
I suppose I dont want to put myself completely out there as I dont want to risk affecting this friendship. At the same time, I am a little worn out from wearing this mask and I am thinking of how I could reveal a little bit more of the person underneath. (Just a peek for now, as I the insecurity and cowardice probably wont allow for complete unmasking just yet).
This is the first time I've ever spoken so candidly about my feelings - I never thought I'd be able to normalise it or communicate it to anyone. It is so relieving to be able to write to you.
Thank you for your advice - you dont realise how much God has used you to speak into my situation and to help me regain some peace. It has been torment. Some of the worst times for me have been after church, alone on Sunday evening reflecting on the service and His word - feeling so defeated. I suppose it's also torment to be with Em; feeling what I do and having to hide it from her. Giving calculated hugs and measured affection, whilst pining inside. Cant believe she's so darn insistent that she's straight. I'm insightful too, and I'm thinking, yeah right. You're so not. =) But hey... fear of rejection keeps me from breaking the silence I've held thus far.
Answer You and I could be twins separated at birth. I carried my "living bible" to school. Even in highschool. I was the girl who had all the wild friends but who never drank, never smoked, I was such a good girl. LOL. I spent a lot of time witnessing to them. The irony is that one of the wildest friends I had in high school--drugs, drinking, sex, even a night in jail--is now a born again Christian who often tries to make me see that I am on a path to hell. It is okay, I do understand it.
I spent my youth as an officer in the youth group--often president--went to church camp every year (where I developed crushes on our counselor) and then went to a Christian college, got married, became the youth group leader, women's missionary society leader, chairman of the Christian highschool board, and a member of the church board. Then I started writing articles, got a couple of books published by a Christian publisher, spoke at countless women's retreats and conferences...one that was over 10,000 people. I love being a speaker and a writer, I loved being able to touch hurting women briefly, to let them know they weren't alone. Even while I felt absolutely isolated. Because the whole time, I knew. It is funny you mention wearing a mask. The last year I spoke one of my favorite themes was masks...the masks we wear. The woman I was in love with even taught one of them with me. That year I went to see the production (long before the film came out) of Phantom of the Opera, and when they started "Masquerade" I burst into tears. Something I RARELY if ever did. Part of staying in the closet for me meant never letting anyone see what I was really feeling. No crying, no hugging...no touching. Touch was excruciating for me in the latter years. Now my partner says I hug "EVERYONE!"
I know that that last year, when I was teaching about masks, the lessons were really meant for me.
None of your questions are silly or odd, they are great, in depth, and meat seeking. I will say though, that you might like Rainier Rilke's book "Letters to a Young Poet"...one of my favorite quotes comes from that book. "Live the questions."
But getting back to your questions...let's see. "Is it relevant that some things dont have to be spelled out in order for it to be wrong?"
I get that one a lot too, where they point out that if it was "okay" God would have at least mentioned it. One of the first things I point out, again, is that the Bible is a compilation of writings that were gathered along with thousands of other manuscripts and writings, and a group of men (appointed by a roman emporer who was both pagan and Christian just to cover all his bases) voted on what to keep and what to throw away. So we may never know if God did "mention" it to someone...we only know that those scriptures weren't chosen, just as the Book of Thomas and others were not included. The criteria changed over the years, as old members died and new ones came in. It was quite a process. So we have to start with that point...that there were a LOT of things that didn't make it into scripture...
Which leads us to the next point: The same line of reasoning was used to vilify, condemn, even torture left-handed people. The word "left" is actually derived from the greek (or is it latin?) word for "sinister." Which, incidently, is where we get the word "sin." In EVERY reference to the left, or the left hand, it is a negative, a perjorative. EVERY single one. Even to say that Lucifer sat on the left side of God's throne. Because of this way reasoning (the only mentions being of a negative nature-never positive) Christians taught that anyone who was left handed was either evil or cursed. And we taught this way for thousands, THOUSANDS of years...right up until less than one hundred years ago!!! My own grandmother was literally beaten by her parents and teachers if she used her left hand to write, work, whatever.
Another great example is actually marriage. We humans are so funny, because we assume that everything in the universe is similar to our context. When we modern Christians read what the Bible says about marriage, we equate it to what we have and practice today. It couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, I find it ironic that one of the arguments Christians use against legally recognized same gender marriages is "if we let THEM marry, then the POLYGAMISTS will want to marry!!" The irony in this is that polygamy is actually more biblical than today's modern Christian version of marriage. But back to marriage itself, it was not practiced for love, or even commonly as Paul assigned it--to satisfy lust. It was a business transaction. The woman rarely if ever had any say in the matter...it was a transaction between her father and some man.
For most of the transactions, trading a sandal was enough to seal the deal. A lot of times the father was literally selling the daughter and never expected to see her again. And marriage didn't actually happen until after the sex. The transaction created a "betrothal" and the man would take the woman to bed, and hopefully she was a bleeder or she could die. But if she did bleed, she still had to wait and see if she got pregnant before she was actually considered "married". If she was barren, (this would be another biblical "inerrancy" point...scripture NEVER EVER speaks of a man as being impotent, barren, spermless. If a woman didn't get pregnant, SHE was responsible, and SHE was barren. We know that there were surely sterile men back then, but the Bible never "mentions" them...did God know about them?? :) ) if she was barren, then she could be "set aside" (no divorce necessary because they were never married) and he could go find a new wife. She was usually left to become a prostitute or die of starvation. Most people don't realize, since they don't know the historical contexts, that Mary was an "unwed mother." LOL. The New Testament refers to Mary and Joseph as "betrothed." And it points out that Joseph had the legal and scriptural option of "setting her aside."
Further, the Bible NEVER mentions marriage ceremonies, weddings, state licenses... Isn't it interesting that the most commonly used scriptures in wedding vows is actually the vows made from one woman to another? Whither thou goest? Ruth to Naomi. Her mother in law. Not in a lesbian sense, but a devotion of the heart. Other than those vows, we do not have any marriage vows in the Bible. Or licenses. Or MATRIMONY. We wouldn't find Matrimony in the Bible because up until the 1600's the church said that engaging in "matrimony" was a sin. Matrimony was a pagan ritual, asking a fertility blessing on a couple from Aphrodite-Mari. Marriage ceremonies and weddings, especially of the evangelical flavor, are a modern invention. And what has become really interesting to me when I think about modern Christianity is that they tend to condemn people who don't have a state marriage license as people "living in sin." (Although the Catholic church teaches that a state license is irrelevent, and a wedding performed by a justice of the peace is invalid in the eyes of the church--it has to be done by a priest to be valid and recognized by the church.) State marriage licenses are extremely modern...but if you don't have one, the average evangelical Christian believes you are a "shacking up" and living in sin. Yet nowhere in the Bible does it say the state has to recognize your marriage, nowhere in the Bible does it say you must have a ceremony or wedding of any sort. So IF WE GO ONLY BY WHAT THE BIBLE MENTIONS...then only marriages that are the result of the trading of sandals are valid. :)
Sorry you asked? LOL
One more and then I will quit on this point. The Bible never mentions intersexed people. If you are not familiar with the term, they used to be called "hermaphrodites"...and the Bible never mentions them. We know they have always existed through anthropological evidence...but not a mention in scriptures. Today, in our country, over 2500 people are born a year with the genitalia, and sometimes the chromosomes of both sexes. Are they evil? Are they bad? The Bible never mentions them...so my question to Christians is often, how would you decide which gender an intersexed person is morally "allowed" to be with?
Okay, if I haven't bored you to death yet, I have probably confused you. So I will move on...to you and Em. We really are twins separated at birth.
So one more story. A couple years before I fell for what I call my "transition love" (the one who I fell so hard for and gave a backrub and had a heart attack--by the way, never ever got to kiss her, so you are one up on me) I had actually developed some pretty strong feelings for the editor who had worked on my books (big Christian charismatic publisher/women's organization--ever hear of Women's Aglow Fellowship?). I was intoxicated just from her walking into the room...she always wore the same perfume, and it was like a drug for me. She was one of the people I cut off my relationship cold turkey with when I realized how hard I had fallen. Didn't see or speak to her for almost five years...and then we came back into each other's lives. And she was with a woman!!! And that woman came from the same organization!! They have now been together about 18 years I think...and to this day, my former editor still says, (seriously) "I am not a lesbian...I just love ______"
If it were me, I would be tempted to pour the alcohol again, LOL, but you are a much gooder girl than me and you wouldn't do that. Sorry, couldn't resist.
I don't know, Susan...this is seriously a hard situation. You may decide at some point you absolutely have to tell her, but when you do you know you risk not only losing her, but being outed. It happens. But if you are anything like me, the closet is getting stuffy, and it is going to be harder and harder to take. For right now, enjoy the relief of getting to tell another human being what you are feeling. I've been there. I can remember the first time I wrote the words and knew another human being was going to read them. Enjoy it, take the next few weeks as they come...live the questions. You will know if and when it is time to say something to her. Or who knows, it sounds like she might end up being the one to break down first.
Whatever happens, know this. Human beings seem to need to put limits on who God can, should, will love. I think it is because we ourselves have limits, are limited. God isn't. God is limitless, and so is His love. I will leave you with one last thing. For 38 years I always, always, always prayed with my head down, eyes closed. Other people could look up, raise their hands, praise Him openly. My head was always down, my eyes always closed. It took me 38 years to realize that my whole life I had been afraid that God would SEE ME. And if He saw me, He would only see the abomination. Isn't that odd...someone who had studied the Bible (we could probably start a Bible bookstore between us--I have seven different versions, all of the youngs concordances, henry's, greek lexicons etc etc) her whole life, who loved God and Jesus her whole life...that I could be so foolish as to hope that because I never looked up, never reached out, maybe He wouldn't notice me...the abomination?
The day I read that God had chosen me, and had NOT rejected me, I started to understand that what God wants from me is to listen to Him...not other people. People are fallible--like me. Listen to Him.
Okay...so now you know my story...and you are writing yours. The reason I volunteer on this site is because I know there are other people out there like you and me. And I remember the pain, I will always remember it. So I use it to reach out and hopefully let someone else know they are not alone. I wasn't alone...I just didn't have a place like this.
Have a good night, Susan, you can write as long and as often as you want and need to.
