Expert: Kay - 10/28/2009

Question
QUESTION: Dear Kay,

I'm Nathan from the netherlands and i happen to like an christian iraqi refugee so much. I can feel he likes me so much as well. Though he doesn't want to admit we are boyfriends, even though we do everything lovers do. I met him in August 2009 and some of my friends that met him too, said he is intelligent, knows what he is talking about and a good person.

But his reasons for not wanting a relationship are so dramatic, noble are just contradicting. I don't really know what i should do, he says he wants to go to luxemburg with me for a weekend at the end of this year. I guess i will wait and see how this develops. Also both our birthdays are in November. I try to just enjoy the good times we have ( once per week), but it makes me feel so insecure, the more if he happens to be very busy, he works 6 days per week while studying dutch intensely, so i dont even get to visit him. Anyway, im really really sure he isnt cheating on me, also because many of my friends have talked to him and gave a good judgement of him.

Actually everything is fine to me, i know he likes me a lot and i have faith he will stay with me for a long time. But recently at some moment he said things like "I'm not even a christian, cause im gay" and "I dont know about the future, look at that old gay man sitting in the cafe, i hope i won't be like that in the future, gay life is shit..i dont know maybe i will marry a woman"

He would really break my heart if he does something like that. Though i told him "People have always been picking the parts in religious books to read and ignore, and you should too, cause those manuscripts have been copied by hand endless times, you dont even know what is written there is authentic, so don't just follow the opinion of the mass, the majority of people isnt gay, of course they will define the easy rule that gays cant be christians" I also said "You would really break my heart if you marry a girl, just to please some opinions of others, it's not even about me, you probably just live once, so follow your heart and make the most of out of it, you dont want to wake up some day in your 60's and regret you didn't do something"

I hope i get the chance to learn him to embrace the fine things of life, there is more to life than just work and discipline, but i guess it's not so easy to change his mind. Maybe i watch more gay movies with him, at least he liked les chansons d'amour.

If you feel like i will share some dialogues with you, otherwise i guess i at least order some thoughts.

2 months ago

"anas, i want to tell you something, but i dont really dare"
"i already know what you wanna tell me, nathan"
"you do?!"
"just say it nathan"
"i think i like you more than just liking, i wondered when can i call anas my boyfriend"
"look nathan, i like you so much and i know you like me so much as well. When you tried to help me finding other kinds of jobs, i knew you must like me so much, nobody in the netherlands ever did so much for me. You're so simple (apparently im still too innocent and i dont know anything about the dirty gaylife), honest and sweet. I don't think i will ever find another person like you in this world. But you study in university, you have a good future, what do i have? I have a shitty life here, i work like a machine, i dont have time, im not sure about my future and job, so we cant have a relationship right now"
"i dont care about money or status. I don't want anyone else like you either."
"i know you dont care about money but it's about me. You dont understand. But i promise if i will be sure about a future and job, i will come back and ask you to be my boyfriend"

some weeks later he talked to another arabic online friend of mine

"dont upset nathan, ok?!"
"i won't, nathan is a very respectable person, i love him more than a brother"
"but you know he wants more than that right?"
"i do, but i told him about the problems with my exes, when i have a good future i will try to have a boyfriend, of course i wont upset nathan, he does so much for me and he helps me so much"

A few weeks ago, actually i wanted to just enjoy the times we have, but i got drunk and talked about it again:

"we have been together for 3 months, we do everything lovers do, we miss each other, we call each other, we kiss, we have sex, we watch movies together etc. why can't you admit we are boyfriends, nothing has to change, i know you are busy and have problems, i respect that, i dont even need to see you more, i dont command anything extra from you."
"nathan, i care more about you than you care about me, i can change my random exboyfriends tenthousand times, but i cant change my best friends, if we break up in a relationship i will lose you, and i dont want that"
"you won't lose me, unless you decide yourself to leave me. nothing has to change but i just want to know that you are serious about this, we are best friends now, if we break up as lovers we will still be best friends"
"you dont have much experience in relationships, im sure we wont, i talked about you with my best friend joey about you many times, he asked why dont ask for a relationship with you, but i decided i wanted to be alone, i have had 3 broken relationships (cheaters and dishonest ex boyfriends), now im free, if i start a relationship with you, i would be in jail again, i have so many problems already, a relationship would give me even more stress"
"Did you feel stressed in the past 3 months? I told you nothing is really going to change, the past 3 months will be the same as the next 3 months. Its just that i want to know you really have me in your heart. In practice we are already boyfriends anyway."
"yea, maybe.."
"then you want me to wait for you forever, you dont think you would find another person like me, but its ok to you if i go date someone else?"
"do you have someone else?"
"no, but you can't just let me wait like this right"
"i really like you, but if you find someone that is better than me, you can date him"
"look sarmad, there are like 6 billions people in this world, i can't possibily meet up with all of them, and no matter who i pick, there will always be thousands that are better than the one i chose, instead im content with what i have now,look you have these grey hairs, you have wrinkles, you smoke 1 pack per day, you're a refugee, but it doesnt matter, i know you have a good heart and at least you are really interested in me as well, and that means a lot to me, i dont want to find anyone else, there will always be risks in life, but i want to build up something with you"
"look jan, i just dont wanna lose you"
"..."
"jan, im so clear with you ( he tells me everything and honestly), you should be happy"

His problems.. 2 ex boyfriends that call to him, one from denmark that keeps trying to invite him over for a weekend or sometimes cries that he is lonely..a polish boyfriend that calls him once in a while too, i think he wants to make up with sanas, but sanas told me the chance is very very small, cause they have very different characters, he cheated, and once it's broken it will never really be the same. He wants to block their mobile numbers but he gave away his housenumber too ( he lives with his mom and his mom doesnt know he is gay), so its not good if they would call to his home instead. On top..he dad was murdered because he was christian, and in holland he thinks dutch is very difficult, thats why we usually just speak english to each other.

>_<.. If you really read up to here. Thank you so much. Sorry for sharing almost my whole life to you. But my question is actually, what could i do to make him focus more on me and the fine things of life instead of only working, and above all what can i do to teach him not to marry a woman for the sake of others! He should think about his own health and life too. If his mother is such an important person, if she likes sanas so much, this person is supposed to love sanas the way he is right?!

So his birthday is 26 november. Now i bought a silver necklace and a white gold cross for him. I think i will tell him that "jesus loves everyone, the way they are and at least i blessed this cross for you and i love you."

Thanks for everything,
Nathan

ANSWER: Hi Nathan,

I did read your entire email and I think that you just have to let HIM discover him self. At this point all you can do is support him. He is obviously gay and confused and no matter what you may tell him he may do the opposite. He will proably learn later in life that marrying a woman is a big mistake, especially if he is gay. YOu can't hide from who you are. I receive alot of mail from men that tried to marry a woman because they didnt want to disappointmet family, ashamed or for religious reasons and ALL of them eventually came out.
If he is truly gay there is no hidinig or pretending. It may work for a little while but he will always have urges.
Again all you can do is support him. I wouldn't keep talking to him over and over again about it. Some people just have to learn on their own.

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi Kay,

I guess i only know for sure that he likes me a lot, but he hasnt truly fallen in love with, but actually neither have i. I think i will wait till the end of this year and see if he will change in his opinion about what we are or maybe i will know by that time whether i even want to keep waiting. Actually now i think about it again, i think we will be able to stay together for a long time, i will have plenty of time to shape his thinking slowly..I'm just a little afraid that he wont be able to fall in love with me anymore cause by that time he might have seen me as a sex buddy for too long and any feeligs of love might have faded.

So maybe if i want something to happen between us, i really have to push him to make a choice after all? Or will it still just happen, when it's supposed to happen?

if i keep having cosy good times for a long extended period, will that bring us closer to lovers or closer to best friends since there is no confirmation hence no love can manifest between us?

Thanks, nathan

Answer
Hey,

What you are going through is normal. You are dealing with someone that hasnt come to terms that he is actually GAY and like i said there is not much you can do...
I believe that things happen for a reason and they should naturally happen. I dont think that you should do all of this pushing because its not natural. You dont ever eant to force someone to love you or to be with you.