General Dating Questions/Do men like this exist? Follow up
QUESTION: I am not going to ask every expert on this site my question, I will ask 3 based on reading their personalised notes and this is basically so I can get a sort of understanding of a variety of expert opinions.
Basically, my query is as follows:
I want to find a man who doesn't care about his looks, and doesn't care about how I look and only loves based on personality, kindness of heart and aspirations. Is that possible?
No, I'm not considered very ugly by people, if you were wondering whether the reason was lack of choice. But I want a man who is kind to everyone no matter what they look like, and can love some one physically and spiritually without needing appearance as a cue to love.
I hope to be able to learn to be more accepting and open minded so that I can become that way as well. I am really sick of men who are vain and proud about their own appearance, and all the men I know seem to bully others based on appearance. I think the kindest people in the world, are those who don't care what you look like, or what they look like.
Obviously, he should still shower. Preferably no ripped clothing, although I may make an exception if someone matching the description came along.
If anyone matches this description also, maybe you should send me an email, see if we can have great conversations together, because I know guys like this are rare and if I have to find one online, so be it. Or at least give me advice on where I can find these kind of a man.
Yes, there is a girl out there who falls in love with kindness and charisma, not a pretty face or washboard abs - I know, hard to believe but I am not trolling.
The fact that I am 19 probably has some significance to the situation. I didn't want that to be the first point for the reader to be influenced by.
ANSWER: Hello Leyla!
Yes, this is absolutely possible. In fact, this describes many of the men I know.
There's a huge misunderstanding about men brought about by seemingly simple analogies. I think you may be suffering from at least one of them. We have many of these misunderstandings brought about by culture and by language itself. By this I'm talking about simple statements that just roll off the tongue and are used to express abstract ideas.
For example, one of these is "practice makes perfect". No, in fact that isn't true. What *IS* true is "Only perfect practice makes perfect". If you continue to "practice" something the wrong way you get very, very good at doing something wrong. But, how many times have YOU used that phrase because it's just so easily said? We all do that.
Another one of these I constantly see here on this board and elsewhere is "Men are visual". In other words, this means that men are attracted to what we see. In fact, that's not the case for many, many men. What's worse than the misunderstanding however is that it causes many people (like you?) to assume it's an adage and therefore you have to be visually attractive in order to be interesting to men. That's simply not the case.
I'm sorry that all the men you know are "looks bashers". However, that isn't my experience at all. While I think people should take pride in their looks - and maximize their features - most men I know and even those I talk to here on this board don't bully or mistreat others because of the way they look. What I do know however is another one of those phrases, "To a man who is good with a hammer, the entire world is a nail".
In other words, if *YOU* are looks-focused, you tend to see the rest of the world that way. Therein lays your first answer: change YOUR focus and watch the world change to fit. Yes, it really works that way. I appreciate that this is your goal.
Another reality you should accept is that nobody is a saint and nobody is a sinner. (Look at me throwing tongue-friendly adages all over the place!)
The fact is, we are all both. There are times when we all mistreat someone else for various reasons and there are times when we are kind. If you're looking for the guy who is always this way 100% of the time you're going to be looking for him for (literally) ever. No person exists like this although we want to believe it. People like to use archetype examples like Gandhi (who actually was a notorious racist), Mother Theresa (who actually took money from starving, destitute countries to fund her own church) and many others. No doubt these people did a lot of good, but even they weren't the "absolutes" you seem to be looking for.
From what I'm reading here, you seem to be trying to find these guys online and by doing that you're already stacking the deck (another idiom - man! I'm full of them today!) against yourself. The internet is mostly a visual medium. It caters to how we assimilate information - through our eyes. That doesn't mean that every man who uses the internet is "visual" however. Many are not but we all have to begin our use of the tool in that "modality".
So, let's bottom-line this (I just can't stop myself!!)
In fact, there are men out there who fit your desired quality. Is it a majority of men? Maybe, at least to one degree or another. Trust me, it's absolutely not rare. The trick is to adjust your OWN focus first. Get that clear and seek to see the benevolence in people and guess what? You will. You also have to accept that people are complicated emotional creatures. We do, say and think things that align with your desires sometimes and contradict them in others.
That's not limiting by the way. It makes for a very rich experience. Being black and white (ok, this is getting out of hand!) about your search will only prevent you from finding what is good in the people you do get to meet and will hinder your perception of everyone.
Dr. Dennis W. Neder
Producers: "BAM! TV" and “Love and Sex”
Publishers: "Being a Man in a Woman's World I, II & III”
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thanks for responding, I usually love your replies.
No, I've not tried to meet anyone online actually, just people, both men and women in real life.
All of the men I know talk and joke HARSHLY about other's people's appearance disparagingly, it is difficult not to notice for me. It really hurts when I hear men laugh about obese women. All the guys I know do it. And you say men who are matching my description aren't rare, where can I find them? Certainly not in my social group. No one in any of my social groups. It's a social thing, to care about physical appearance, too. Especially at my age. That's how you bond with your friends, a large part, is to talk about the opposite sex's attractiveness, evaluate it etc. Guys do it, girls do it. So for you to say that a certain degree of a majority of men aren't looking for physical appearance whatsoever, is just not relatable to me in amongst the people I've ever met.
The only people I know who are very kind about appearance are not often men, they are rare, and if they are men then it's because they've been bullied into submission, and they still give compliments, they just don't be negative. The way I was raised, I was taught never to talk about people's appearance in a mean way unless you are beautiful yourself, that is what everyone is telling me every single day.
I don't believe I'm shallow, when I meet someone I don't think about their appearance. Whether they are considered by society with the labels "fat", "pimply" "nerdy" those words don't cross my mind, I just think how lovely they are if they have a nice personality, and am interested in what they have to say.
And when other females my age see another gorgeous girl, they go crazy and obsess and admire over her attractiveness and I am much more uncaring and relaxed about that kind of stuff nowadays. Obviously I can see a pretty girl, all humans like looking at pretty things - there is a reason why we keep our homes neat and polished and pretty is a priority, we don't want to come home to a 'dump'. But I believe people are kind of different, I've made an effort so I won't judge based on a face.
Most of the time I give men the benefit of the doubt that they are a nice, decent person until they are actively treating someone badly and explicitly admit that they are bullying them because of their looks. Plus compliments on my own appearance, that comes from every guy I talk to (the only exceptions being professional encounters) so I think that when people say "Men are attracted to the visual" then physical compliments are definitely reflective of that truth.
When I meet men for the first time, I don't really focus that much on physical appearance, I don't really notice it that much. So unlike you suggest, it's not because of my own views, that I am having this problem, although I can see why you may think that.
You are talking about men, I don't really think that it's appropriate for a 19 yo to be trying to get with 'men' of the age you are describing. And guys my age I'm sure you'll agree are even less likely than mature men to be very kind and not shallow.
SO bottom line, I want someone like me... Who only looks for personality traits. But there's a guy I like at the moment, he doesn't seem like the type that would be mean to someone about how they look. He did compliment me on my looks, and he is slightly interested in the way he looks - so although I'm really attracted to his kindness and the fact that he cares about everyone really, but what I want to know is if there is are guys who you would never hear saying, "That girl has great t*ts" or "This woman is so hot" and the worst like, saying she's ugly and fat. Because those past 3 comments are what most guys say, and it's like socially conditioned into them. And a guy who doesn't compliment his lady on appearance, not because he doesn't think she doesn't look good, but because appearance does not even cross his mind. Should I hold out for my (really unconventional) 'perfect' man or should I give up and accept that he does not exist?
This is what I want: A male version of the woman in the following hyperlink!!!
Hello again Leyla!
I think we're dancing around the fundamental question here. You appear to be looking for someone who doesn't judge others by not having an opinion. That person, my dear, simply doesn't exist.
As you said, some guys say that a girl has "great tits" or "is hot" or is fat and ugly. Here's the reality: EVERYONE has an opinion! Let's be honest here: you certainly do. You're just as judgmental as anyone else yet you seem to take offense when someone else is. Having an opinion - and even expressing it - doesn't make someone unkind.
It's like the argument about lying. I constantly get letters from people who are deeply hurt that someone else lied to them. My response: Get the hell over it! EVERYONE LIES. You do. I do. Your pastor does. Your banker does. I've even been told that your Congress-Critters and President do too. That's just the way the world is. If you try to hold others to standards you can't possibly reach it says far more about you than them.
Likewise, everyone judges everyone else all the time. If you seriously want a world where nobody does these things (except of course, you) then we have a very different discussion here. In fact, that's not a "perfect man" at all. You'd get so tired of someone who doesn't have an opinion (especially one who looks to you for them all) that you'd want to rip your own hair out just for a little excitement.
We all judge everyone else all the time. That's the way this world works. We judge them based on our own yardsticks. That's neither fair nor unfair however. It just IS. Looking for someone who doesn't do this is (quite frankly) a foolish waste of your time.
You claim that you don't see a man's looks very much when you first meet him. I disagree. I'll bet I could ask you 100 questions you'd be able to answer right off the bat from a first meeting - all about his looks. Whether you realize it or not you still judge guys by looks. Now, that may not be your PRIMARY criteria to judge them. In fact, according to studies done all over the world, women place looks down at #8 in the list of most important attraction "attributes".
Now, I fully get that you don't THINK you do this, but that's not reality. Here's an example: does water have a taste to it? Most people answer "no". However, if I were to blindfold you and put a glass of water in one hand and a glass of lemonade in the other, do you think you'd be able to "taste" the water from the lemonade? Of course. You're making the same mistake about looks.
So, that leads me to this question: WHY do you need to try to find a person like this? Do you seriously think the woman in that story doesn't judge the guy? OF COURSE SHE DOES! She simply uses different criteria than many others. (BTW: The woman on the left of the photo is Sally Jesse Raphael who's show I've been on a number of times.)
What is it about you that makes you see this normal, every-day activity in others as such a bad thing (so bad that you'd seek to find someone who doesn't have it) yet accept it in yourself? Even if you DID get passed your own "looks judgement" you'd constantly be judging others by different criteria. In fact, you HAVE to do this. You make snap judgments all the time.
Think about the simple act of walking through a busy doorway. You have to instantly decide if you and someone else can fit through at the same time. If not you make a decision (judgment) about who will go first. This is often done based on your size, age, fitness, authority, gender and power and the size, age, fitness, authority, gender and power of the other person. It's all about "judgment".
The point I'm making here is that your own desires to find a guy like this isn't reasonable. He doesn't exist to the degree you're asking for - and that's a good thing. A DAMNED GOOD thing!
That doesn't mean however there aren't truly good, caring, kind guys out there. You're mixing up judgment for kindness and character. Great guys really are all over the place - maybe even in your own social circles. If you want to find them however you're going to have to give up your unreasonable goals and start seeing people as who they really are inside - NOT as the adjusted social image you first see.
Dr. Dennis W. Neder
Producers: "BAM! TV" and “Love and Sex”
Publishers: "Being a Man in a Woman's World I, II & III”