General Dating Questions/A few questions
QUESTION: Hi Mike, how are you? I hope you are well.
It's been a while. To be honest, is feel like is have a hundred more questions to ask you. But is will start a few because these are some of the most important to me so far. I don't want to take too much of your time by asking too many times!
Since finding you, Iíve learned so much. Maybe you should start your own website, blog or write your own ebook? I completely support your idea of a forum too. That would be great.
Anyway, my questions:
1. When should one have sex with the woman heís dating? I've been reading through Doc Love's book, and Iím surprised there's very little written about this.
I'm familiar with two schools of thought when it comes to this:
i) The PUA route. PUA's encourage guys to have sex with women at the first and earliest opportunity she gives you. The reasoning for this is because these PUA writers convince you that women love sex, and by fulfilling their desires as early as possible, you can bypass the potential mistakes which occur during the later stages of the dating process.
By having sex with her, they say all the oxytocin and other hormones/endorphins released will instantly maximise her interest level in you, and she will fall in love with you without having to avoid any of the hassle that dating later on brings. Basically, it will shorten 60 days to the length as short as you wish it. This will hence leave you in control of where you want to take the relationship, rather than her testing you for 60 days and making a decision (which is outside of your control) on whether youíre worthy for her or not.
I'm even familiar with a forum which teaches guys to have sex with the woman on the first date, or even the very day you approach her! Surprisingly, there are a lot of success stories from this approach (http://www.girlschase.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5067
). But while I was on this forum many months ago, and I was trying to learn this way of trying to 'seduce' the girl, it seemed somewhat artificial to me. i didn't feel like a gentleman at all.
ii) The 'romance-drama' route. I realised this when I was watching romantic dramas with my sister.
In this case, the woman would confess to the man and give him numerous signals that she was ready for intimacy with him. Yet he would constantly tease her and never give her anything but a crumb of hope as he seemingly prolonged intimacy forever, which makes her more attached to him. And when she does get him in a position where sex is the only outcome, the man would simply roll his eyes, sigh, and agree teasingly, which made her even crazier for him.
What is learned from here is that if romantic dramas are like real life (unlikely, I know) then the longer you prolong sex, while keeping her interest level stable at 90% from teasing and providing hope and indications of interest, the more feelings she would have for you and when the time comes for the two of you to have sex, it will be incredibly passionate. I admired this way. This way, you were always in control and you can be a gentleman too.
Which do you think is best? Prolonging it to 60 days or more while teasing her, or getting it out the way as soon as possible, with her interest increased by 40% because of the act alone?
2. How did you deal with rejection, and stay emotionally unattached to your goal of finding a woman?
Ever since summer 2013, Iíve approached more than 170 women on the street. Every single one of them rejected me (apart from one whom is told you about in my first question to you).
Iíve never had a girlfriend. Iíve never been kissed or kissed a girl. Iíve never had a real date. And although I know 19 is still somewhat young, it really frustrates me and makes me depressed/lonely that everywhere I look, thereís people my age or younger holding hands, kissing each other and being affectionate. I see this every day I walk to my university. This made me really determined to find a girl during the 170 girls I approached, but now itís a reminder that every guy in the world can get something I can never seem to get.
Iím not doing this because I want a girlfriend. Iím doing this to find out why girls donít like me, and how to make a girl desire me.
So, my question here is, how do I stop wanting/needing a girl, just so I can get the closure I want that Iím not undesirable? This chasing of something I can never get has made me slightly obsessed with finding a girl. I hope that once I get a girl, I can just put this behind me and move on with my life. But that has never happened, nor does it feel like itíll happen anytime soon.
Every day I think about approaching girls, or what I need to do to improve myself for women, etc, with the day of rejections ending with me inevitably crying into my pillow thinking Iím the worldís most undesirable man. I envy the men who go about their everyday business without wanting a relationship, or even bothering to meet other women.
(The *really* strange part is that whenever Iím in a foreign country, girls seem to love me and sometimes even approach me. But I think they only like me because Iím different, not because Iím attractive/desirable. For example, when I was in the USA, girls seemed to always want to be with me, probably just because of my English accent. But American girls donít like me at all here. And when I was in the far-east, girls my age there used to go out their way to meet me, talk to me and compliment my West-Asian dark eyes and curly hair. But the oriental girls who study in England hate me (I suppose they see my eyes and hair every day), and look almost in disgust whenever I try to talk with them).
3. Is romantic love and friendship separate forms of love? Or is friendship just the result of low interest?
A while ago, i asked what the best way to be friends with a girl was, on the presumption that 'friendship' and 'romantic love' were two totally different things (I thought friendship had a different scale of interest). But you replied that if you're friends with a girl (even best friends), it's because her interest level in you is only around 50%.
So even if she says you're a really good friend to her, she doesn't truly care about you and you will never be more important than her boyfriend. Is this how it is?
Thank you for your time Mike. I appreciate your efforts and help.
ANSWER: Hi again Ryan,
Thank-you for your questions and your compliments. I appreciate it. Boy you sure do have a lot going on in that mind of yours at 19! You remind me of myself at that age. It is a good thing to ask questions, especially from those people who are now where you want to be. I am going to give you my best feedback on your questions while keeping it as brief and to the point as possible.
1. I believe we touched on the PUA approach in another email chain. However, their approach is great if your ultimate goal is to get a girl in bed with you. For many guys, the desire and thought stops there. I am not one of those guys so I do not subscribe to the PUA school of thought. Iím not condemning them for what they are doing, but I will say that they are constantly chasing a fleeting desire of getting the next girl and the next girl and the next girl into bed. Itís a very superficial chase and certainly not one of deep meaning. My goal is to help men become true gentlemen while still being able to get the girl. Youíre right that The System does not go into much detail on sex as this is not really the intention behind the book. All guys want to have sex with women at some point, so that is assumed really in my opinion. And also in my opinion, it is best to wait until a woman is your girlfriend before you sleep with her. I can tell you from personal experience that what the PUA community teaches can actually hurt your chances with a quality girl! Why? Because QUALITY women will not sleep with you on the first date or even the first few dates! You want a quality woman donít you Ryan? PUA teaches manipulation of women to get them to have sex with you. Not a very noble endeavor if you ask me. For example, I once was dating a girl I really liked. We had great chemistry and a lot of fun together. However, I was attempting to use the PUA approach and ended up sleeping with her on the third date. Guess what? She got totally upset with herself and with me that we had sex together that soon. Guess what else? She left and I never heard from her again. Really a shame too because she was a great girl. So donít get too caught up into what the PUA community has to say unless all you want to do is get laid, in which case, I am not the guy to help you.
I very much enjoyed your ďromantic-dramaĒ route description. This is much more in line with what I would recommend and what The System teaches. You see, all that teasing and making her wait perfectly describes a key component to success with women: CHALLENGE. This is one of the main concepts taught by The System, and it really works when you use it. If every other guy on the planet is trying to sleep with a girl, and you make her wait, how do you think that will make her react? This has never happened to her before, and she starts to wonder why you are so ďdifferent.Ē Bingo! Now youíve got her interested and all because you played it cool and didnít make a decision using the wrong head if you know what I mean. So the route in 1ii part of your question is much more in line with what I would recommend and do myself.
2. This is a tough one. Without truly knowing you or seeing you in action, it is difficult to say what is actually going on. What I can say with certainty is that you are doing something to turn these girls off. Maybe itís the way you carry yourself? Maybe itís how you approach them? Too aggressive? Too timid? Perhaps itís your attitude, and they can sense your uneasiness around them? It is difficult to pinpoint one cause for this. Have you ever thought about talking to a counselor about the way you are feeling? A licensed counselor might be able to shed some light on why you feel this way and ways to feel better. The better you feel inside, the better you will look outside to the world. You really need to get your ďinner gameĒ handled before any girl will look at you the way you want them to. I also truly think you are putting a head trip on yourself here. I think that you have made up your mind that you are undesirable with women; that no women will want to talk with you or go out on a date with you. As Iíve said before, your outer world is shaped by your inner world. How you feel inside is reflected on the outside. Have you thought about hypnotherapy? Awesome modality if you can find someone to do it affordably. I would start with positive affirmations every day. That means the first thing you say when you wake up in the morning is ďThank you.Ē You are alive to experience a new day and be grateful for that! Next, stand in front of the mirror and say, ďRyan, I love you.Ē I know, sounds funny, but do it. You need to learn to love yourself dude. That will be huge for your inner game! You see, most of the PUA community is comprised of men who do not truly love who they are. They derive their self-respect from sleeping with as many girls as they can. They think this will bring them happiness and lasting confidence. Wrong! They will repeat this perpetual cycle until they wake up and realize what they really need, and that is self-love.
3. Your last question is a tricky one. Romantic love and friendship can go hand in hand. For example, me and my wife are the best of friends AND have genuine romantic love for each other. That is why I married her of course. You can also have female friends whose interest level will never rise above 50% and you will always come second to her significant other. I feel like what youíre talking about here is trying to move one a female friend into the romantic love zone. Difficult if not impossible to do. Once you are in the friend zone, there you shall stay in all reality. It is far better for the girl you are interested in to know you want romantic love from her rather than just friendship.
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Thank you for the previous reply. I guess i'm just at rock-bottom with my confidence. I don't get it. I see girls look at me all the time, but as soon as i open my mouth, everything falls apart.
With your advice, I asked another expert about my predicament, and he suggested me to write down 3 things every morning that I like about myself. I'm doing this as well as the 'talking in the mirror' technique you suggested ;) I feel much better, but i'm going to take a break from women for a while and just focus on myself. I feel this is most important. I'm very grateful for your help, Mike.
Actually, the reason I wrote this follow-up question was because I feel i didn't explain my 3rd question well. So I want to be clearer this time.
From your responses, you and Doc Love describe friendship with a girl as something with very little significance. You appear to say that when a girl calls you a friend, it doesn't mean she 'likes' you at all, but it means she barely has any respect or attraction for you to think about you as anything more(as a potential lover).
When she calls you a 'friend' or even a 'best friend', it doesn't mean at all that she likes you (as I had always thought), but it means she merely tolerates you or wants something from you. (Unless you're already in a relationship like yourself and your wife, where this doesn't apply.)
So this must mean that I should apply 'the system' on every girl i meet, from the acquaintance to my friendly classmate. I need to do this because I want every girl to see me in the best possible light and with utmost respect.
But i'm not sure whether it'll be very proper or beneficial of me to apply the system to every girl I meet, hence creating girls with high interest in me, everywhere I go.
Wouldn't this cause a lot of drama?
Is the platonic friendship between a man and a woman (as we know it today) really is as superficial as you say it is? Because I kind of enjoyed just 'being friends' with a girl.
For example, a girl (who has a boyfriend) recently gave me her number and asked me if we could go out for a coffee sometime. It will be really fun and interesting to go out with her and just be friendly with her for the sake of being friends. To have a normal conversation with her without trying to act all mysterious and challenging (which gets tiresome).
But if i apply 'the system', I think she might get confused and mixed feelings about me and her boyfriend, and everything's going to turn into a mess.
Hope this clarifies things. I look forward to your viewpoint on this.
I hear ya buddy. I once stood where you did at my wits end with women. You know what I did? Exactly what you are proposing to do which is take a break from women and dating altogether and focus on yourself. This is a very wise move on your part. It is of the utmost importance for you do get a handle on your inner environment: your self-confidence, self-esteem, your likes and dislikes, your wants and needs, etc. Take the time. I took 3 years to myself before I decided to go into a committed relationship. Those were some of the best, most productive times in my life! It was well worth the wait and effort.
Donít get caught up in exercising The System on EVERY girl you meet; only the ones that you have a romantic interest in. It is perfectly fine to have platonic, female friends. No they will not see you in a romantic light though, but it does not hurt to have platonic female friends. You want to know why? Because if you get one who is really honest with you, she can help coach you in the reasons why you are turning women off. You can tell her what you say and how you say it, and she will be able to provide you with a unique, femaleís perspective. This can be an invaluable resource, but ONLY if she is truly HONEST. This means she is not afraid to tell you what she really thinks as opposed to watering down the issue to make you feel better. You donít want someone just to make you feel better, you want someone to help you improve yourself. If you can find a platonic female friend who will help you do that, go for it! Keep in mind she could also serve as your wing woman in social situations where you want to meet other girls. Just food for thought. I still highly recommend you follow your intuition though and take a break from women entirely to get yourself sorted out.
I wish you the best my friend. Keep writing down the positive affirmations and the mirror exercise as instructed and get that confidence going!