Aboutgoatlady Expertise Specializing in New Goat Owner understanding of goat physiology, goat anatomy, goat care and herd management. *I am not a veterinarian, any advice and information should be verified by your veterinarian before administering to your goats.
Note: Keep in mind, the goat expert is volunteering her time to help other goat owners, she also runs her farm with her own herd of 100 goats and may not be at her computer at all hours. Questions are answered as soon as she can possibly read and answer them, usually within 24 hours.
(! During times of severe summer weather in the Midwest, I may experience a delay in internet service due to the interference of the satellite reception - but will answer your questions as soon as service is restored. !)
Experience 17 years experience of raising goats and herd management. Active hands on experience with goat herd and research with various Caprine University Research and Extension Centers nationwide. 15 years dedicated to helping other goat breeders/owners with goat anatomy, goat disease and goat health care issues via phone, published goat care articles and internet interaction.
Organizations 5 year active member of International Veterinary Information Service
Publications United Caprine News, Homesteaders Magazine, Columnist for Goat Magazine, Owner and Author of GoatPedia™
Education/Credentials Graduate Programs in Medicine, Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Stanford University
Question QUESTION: Hi I ask a question in regards to Rufus last week and never received a answer, thanks for you attention in this matter.
sincerely Glenda,
ANSWER: Additional:
I looked in my files to see if I had something other than this post and I find nothing. I would have noticed it more than most because I have a goat named Rufus as well- and with the way AllExperts.com works, if there is a pending question in que, it stays in the list for pending questions until I answer it- There is no way for me to just delete them. Ok I just looked in my "questions already answered" and I see it there but not read by the person who posted:
here is a screen shot of the post log: http://goat-link.com/images/allexperts-rufus.gif
HI Glenda,
But I did answer you.. did you not get it ? This is a copy of what I wrote:
You just answered the following question:
Name: Glenda Felmey
Subject: Rufus 18 month weatherd boer
Question: Rufus has been sick for 5 months he has been to New Bolten animal hospital in PA for 9 days. Came home with no changes has seen 3 Vets, no one seems to know what is wrong. Suzanne at onion creek has been my best resource. Eye membranes pale gums pale skin under tail very pale, we have been giving red cell for Iron, B-12 shots 3cc daily. His immune system not working gets diarrhea for weeks I give electrolytes daily fresh forage, good grass hay, very poor coat dry flakey skin, when he was shaved at the hospital it took months for the coat to grow in with the help of Mane Tail and groom sulfur based product. I have been reading on vitamin deficiency I'm leaning toward Vitamin A deficiency. His symptoms started with diarrhea, no appetite, check for parasite egg count it was 150 per gram wormed with 3cc Ivemec 1% given orally no changes in diarrhea called Vet out gave vitamin B-12 injection. No improvement called another vet she tubed him with mineral oil and Phillips milk of magnesium within 30 minute he was down and had labored breathing called vet back out and that is when she sent him to New Bolten he stayed for 9days they ran every test possible found elevated white blood count started passing blood in urine gave two blood transfusions started two antibiotics penicillin and another can't remember name looks like karo light syrup,then started him on Dex steroid, they could not diagnose him and I brought him home and continued him on all meds for almost twenty days. At this point I found Suzanne at onion creek ranch and she told me to look at the eye membrane and gums very white started red cell and B-12 his appetite came back some what but then we just go up and down with diarrhea and he has a hard time dealing with the heat keep him in shade with a fan spikes a fever of 105 I give banimine and baytril 100 for 5 days at the rate of 5cc daily, I just can't figure what is going on and living in Maryland vets don't treat goats and frankly they don't seem to know any more now than in the beginning can you offer any help.
Sincerely Glenda,
Answer: HI Glenda,
The only thing I can come up with hearing the length of illness and condition he is in, have you had him tested for Johnes?
When you dewormed him with the Ivomec, Did you follow the 10 day 10 day 10 day routine? I would RE-deworm him and inject it SubQ at the rate of 1cc/30lbs and use Ivomec PLUS for liver fluke as well as gasto intestinal worms. Read my article on deworming on my website:
http://Goat-Link.com Look in the parasite Menu for the top article Goat Deworming Info, this gives a complete explanation of this deworming procedure. I Would also treat him for cocci using Sulmet or DiMehtox liquid directly from the bottle not in the drinking water- do NOT use Corid as this is a thiamine inhibitor. The dosage for both Sulmet and Dimethox liquid is 6TBSP per 100 lbs the first day and 3TBSP /100lbs the next 4 days given orally right from the bottle. (1TBSP is 15ccs)
I would find a vet who can do a liver biopsy (they can do a needle biopsy without opening him up) and send it in for a Johnes test as well.
goatlady
Goat-Link.com
(Messages have been delayed due to storm internet outages here)
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: What can you tell me about the Johnes and would any of my other three goats show symptoms since they have been together there whole lives, I hate watching him waste away but he still seems to be happy just very spoiled from all the attention. He is still eating well and pretty active at this point just so very thin, when do you make the decision to have a animal put down especially one that has fought so hard for so long. Do you have any suggestion for something to add weight on, he loves carrot juice and carrots I have given him nutri drench which he hates, he is very picky about his hay and leaves the other three eat like horses compared to Rufus who seems to pick, I spend tons of time every day taking him out to forage so the other goats don't bully him, he runs to me for protection. I have him housed with one goat that is very submissive and passive. I find it remarkable that Rufus used to be the boss, and was the biggest goat the others weigh between 200 and 215 and Rufus's weight is 125 seems sad to watch him shrink up. Thanks for you time hearing me babble on about Rufus.
ANSWER: HI Glenda,
Johne's is a wasting disease also called paratuberculosis
Johne's (pronounced "Yo-nees") disease is a contagious bacterial disease of the intestinal tract. It is a very controversial disease- and the testing for it while they say it is accurate- can test both false positive and false negative- so really neither of the standard testing is 100% correct- unfortunately.
Important Note:Any of the articles will tell you the testing is almost 100% correct in the case of false positive- but I personally had a goat who was losing weight chronically and I feared he has it- I had him tested and the test did come back positive- once a goat has the final symptoms of Johne's and has drastic weight loss- they never do regain weight - This boy did- he gained 30 lbs back and look relatively healthy before he died- upon necropsy we found he has cancer- not Johne's- Had we culled the entire herd at that point we would have put down many goats unnecessarily
All of this being said I can direct you to some links on Johne's disease: http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/articles2/johne'sdisease.html
http://extension.missouri.edu/xplor/agguides/ansci/g02115.htm http://www.johnes.org/goats/control.html
http://ohioline.osu.edu/vme-fact/0003.html
I would get a good mineral mix with plenty of copper in it
I would continue the B12
and get a few mineral/nutritional supplements such as DYNE and CafeManna- Dyne is a liquid product found at Jeffers supply online or Valley Vet online or at well stocked feed stores.
Calf manna is a pelleted feed for calves found at most feed stores- it is very high in nutrition and only takes 1.4 to 1.2 cup a day- smells like black licorice and the pellets are small and pink.
Also I would get either redcell liquid supplement or Lixotinic supplement and give according the the bottle. Both are high in vitamins and minerals.
I think I would continue to try using these things and if you see results - then they may be working- as long as he is willing to try I would be willing to try- I just would not jump to the Johne's conclusion right away which is what many people do. I lean toward copper deficiency.
QUESTION: Good morning,
Rufus is doing extremely well, I have been giving cod liver oil and carrot juice twice daily he loves the carrot juice. He was actually food aggressive yesterday which is amazing for him. He looks so bright and alert springing around head butting the other goats, this is the first time in months, he acts like a normal goat. I have noticed his skin is extremely dry any ideas for this it is very flaky, my vets thinks it is only dry skin, keep in mind he has been on antibiotics and steroids for a long time intermittently now he is only on B-12, red cell and cod liver oil for the added Vitamin A. Thanks for you time to respond.
Answer Hi Glenda,
I saw the name Rufus and my heart sank for a moment- I am SOOO Happy he is doing better! I would give him some Black Oil Sunflower Seeds (BOSS is the nickname goat people use for this) They come in a 25 and 50lb bag at the feed stores- some feed stores sell them by the pound- Only give him a handful a day but this will help his coat and skin- the black oil sunflower seeds - not the gray striped ones. With his improvement I highly Doubt he has Johne's, they never do improve . Were you able to get the minerals with copper in them? Are you still following the deworming schedule? This is such wonderful news! I'm very happy for him and you.. Thank you for letting me know how he is doing- Keep me posted! Give him a kiss for me.
