Expert: Goatlady - 9/7/2008

Question
QUESTION: Hello there,

I am located in Elkesley in England and have no previous experience in goat keeping.
a couple of months ago we bought a small holding. The previous owner did not take her goat with her and just left her there. I gather from the neighbours that the goat is about 10 - 12 years old. She is an Anglo Nubian. She was quite thin and her hooves were overgrown. With some smallholder all round goat mix, hay, foot trimming and a bit of love & attention she is in much better health now. One thing I have noticed is she sometimes has a 'snotty'& running nose and she walks funny, sort of crosses her front legs over when she walks, although doesn't seem to be in any discomfort. When stood still she sometimes looks a bit uncomy, she arches her back and does funny stretches. I don't know if that is normal or maybe just part of old age?

I have recently picked up 5 new goats as I thought she might be lonely. The new goats are all female and they are Saanen's. One is 2 years old with her 5 month old kid, one is 5 years old and has just had a miscarriage and the other 2 are 4 years old.
The mother seems to be very thin with a very poor coat. She has lost her goat along her spine and her skin along there is a little bit red. I have treated them all with louse powder as they have external parasites but I am not convinced it has done the trick! Is there a recommended pour on I could purchase or do I just need to use the powder again? The last time I used the powder was only a week ago, and there do not seem to be as many parasites now.

I have also wormed them with Panacur as a couple had runny, sloppy pellets which I gather is not normal. They seem to be a little better now but still not perfect. (I wormed them 4 days ago)They have had access to more grazing and greenary than where we got them from and I'm wondering whether that could be the cause?

I currently feed them all round smallholder goat mix twice a day. Mother and baby have 2lb a day between them and the others have 1lb a day each.They also have access to good quality hay at all times and fresh water that is changed daily.
They are in a field shelter that is plenty big enough for them all to have their own space and are just in the process of splitting it off so half of it can be used as sleeping quarters to keep them out of a draught.

I am worried that I may not be doing something right and that there is possibly something more I should be doing to help mother and baby?I would hate to think there is something I should be doing but have missed.

I would be grateful for any advice given.

Many thanks

Kind regards

Lucy

ANSWER: Hi Lucy,
You are doing a wonderful thing with these precious goats! I would suggest changing dewormer to Ivomec or Ivomec PLUS depending on your area if it is hot and humid there. Panacur is the same as Safeguard and not a very effective dewormer for goats really except for tapeworm removal -take some rectal temperatures  to see if anyone is running a fever (the goats with snotty noses)  normal is 101.5 to 103.5 F-

read on goat pneumonia:
http://goat-link.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=100&Itemid=91


My article on deworming:
http://goat-link.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=58&Itemid=46

Article on Safeguard vs Ivomec Plus:
http://goat-link.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=115&Itemid=113

Make sure you have minerals for them with copper in the minerals- this is a good mix and see if you cannot find something similar:Pay attention to the calcium phosphorus ratio  and the copper content
http://goat-link.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=118&Itemid=116

The doe with the arching  and stretching sounds like she may have gut issues, typically when  goats stretch like this they have digestive upset. ANY chance she could have eaten too much grain or gotten some moldy feed? I would give her some fortified B complex injected at the rate of 1cc/25lbs once a day- you are looking for the Thiamine content which is why the fortified B complex, regular B complex does not have enough thiamine in it per ml to help-  IF You can get a vet to give you  pure thiamine  then great- I use 200mg/ml strength thiamine at the rate of 1cc/100lbs injected SUbQ. This may also explain her walking- thiamine deficiency.

Keep me posted on how they do with these changes and  sounds like you are on the right track with everything else. Thank goodness you took them in.

OH and for lice, Ivomec POUR on used topically - I use it at the rate of 1cc/20lbs  dribbled along the backline of the goat from neck to tail - you will have to dribble move some and dribble more to make the dosage last the entire goat length.  You can use this along with the ivomec injectable dewormer- now the pour on says it is also a dewormer but for goats it is not effective as such- but is a great delouser.

goatlady
Goat-Link.com



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hi, thanks so much for such a quick response. I have had a complete
nightmare this evening! The old goat (Wilma) seems to be getting bullied by 2
of the other goats. So much so that this evening they pushed her over and
was destressed and bleating and struggled to get up. I though she had really
hurt herself but we checked her over and she appears fine.
My partner sectioned the field shelter off today so I have put Wilma by herself
in one side and all the others in the other side. I don't know what to do for
the best. I dare not leave her in with them as I'm worried she will get hurt,
but I feel like I should leave them to sort things out themselves as we have
only had them a week so far.
The field shelter has been split so that I can put the goats out of the draught
at night.
I have left wilma in the part of the field shelter in front of the gate and am
worried that she might be cold there so I have put some straw bales around
her to keep her out of a draught.
I intend to buy the said wormer Ivomec, I have 2 days off Tuesday and
Wednesday so I will sort it out then.
There is no chance that Wilma could have eaten moldy food or straw and the
food I have given her has always been the same. I am in the process of trying
to find a vet in the area to use.

Kind regards

Lucy

ANSWER: Hi Lucy,
the falling over and not being able to get up is probably due to weakness  more than likely due to wormload- once she is dewormed with the ivomec she will begin to get stronger and gain weight.
In the meantime you can add molasses or corn syrup to her warm water daily to give her added energy. It's a good thing you found her as getting over on her side this way and not being able to get up can be a fatal situation for her as the  ability to pass needed belching  stops and the goat is suffocated from within by bloating up and pressing on her heart and lungs. This can happen as quickly as an hour- so the move for her was a wise one. Until she is stronger and can hold her own.
Keep me posted and  anytime you need help I'm here.
goatlady
Goat-Link.com


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Hello again,

I'm so sorry to keep bothering you.

I have just done some research on the internet and have also read your article
about the ivomec, am I right i thinking I can buy the pour on and use it
externally and orally?

Kind regards

Lucy

Answer
HI Lucy,
No. I know some people are using pour ons orally but no - do not.
Use the pour on Ivomec  as a pour on and it is only good as a delouser- even though it is also a dewormer for cattle it does not work as such on goats- use the injectable ivomec injected  SubQ to deworm- now you can deworm and delouse at the same time to make things easier- but one product is for one thing and the other is for something else. Using the injectable  ivomec for routine deworming  is Ok but preferred use is injected as it does the job more completely and  stays in the body longer working more effectively.

goatlady
Goat-Link.com