Goats/BABY GOATS

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QUESTION: Hi Donna , just to update you on Ellie . She finally had her kids , 4 in all , 2 does and 2 bucks . Two does were dead , and one looked as if it were dead for a while . I believe this is why she was late , the other is i think because it was cold as ellie obviously had her hands full with the other two . Two that are left are doing ok , and because they also were showing effects of the cold i took a bit of closterium and gave them . Its hard for them to get around as thier back legs are laid back , this will correct itself soon enough . In the meantime if need be how much milk do i give the babys and how often . Ellie of course is all business eating and attending her new family . I gave mollases and water and fed her as usual . Where this little one was dead inside her is there any precautions i should take . By the way she is clear of kids and after birth , no bleeding . Shes a real trooper .

ANSWER: Did the dead kids look necrotic or infected in any way?  I might advise taking the two kid goats left inside and getting them warm and being able to keep a close watch on them just in case the doe had/has an infection.  Re bottle feeding - 3 to 4 ounces every 2 hours for the first two days of life, then 5 to 6 ounces every 4 hours for the next three days of life, then increase milk an ounce to two ounces every day for every 4 hours for the next 10 days.  By 10 days to 2 weeks they can go to every 6 hours with milk amount depending on how they eat/look.  You could bring the kids to the mom during the day and keep with you at night at least until the kids are clear of possible infections or other issues - just a few days would tell.  I would give the kid goats one 200 mcg selenium tablet crushed and dissolved in hot water and add half the oil from a 1000 IU vitamin E capsule and half the oil from an 800 IU vitamin D capsule, mix, cool and give now, you may have to repeat this in 2 to 3 days depending on how their back legs are.  Glad Ellie finally had the kids.  Did she have her selenium supplement four weeks before kidding?  If not, then that could have been the mineral she was lacking to get started in kidding.  

Re a possible infection in Ellie, you can either start preventative injectable antibiotics or you can watch and wait, but at the first sign of her not eating or looking not normal would start the antibiotics.  Hope this helps - Donna

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QUESTION: Hi Donna , we got through the first night ok . Mom is doing fine and i contiue the vitamin b and can now start upping her grain . The kids are still very wobbley , but otherwise are healthy and lively . The selinium i have is in tablet form 100 mcg , and the vitamin e is 400 iu . I gave the kids one tablet each of the selineum last night , crushed up . They should have one more each and for the e give them each 1 400 iu , is this right ? As for the d vitamin i only have injectable A&D , can i give this .All that being said ,, a confession ,, I always forget about the selineum , and is always on hand , and easy to give . So to get back on track with all my goats ( they hav'nt had any selineum with the exception of ellie ) how much should i give them per 100 lbs of the 100 mcg tablets that i have ? should i inject the A&D vitamin ? A lot of questions i know , but since useing your help i have a very healthy herd of 26 . Its real nice when someone comes in and compliments how healthy they look .Thanks

ANSWER: Hi there - yes, you can start mom on some grain.  Continuing the vitamin B is good too.  Sounds like the kids are selenium deficient.  They need 200 mcg selenium at birth with half of a 1000 IU capsule of vitamin E and half of an 800 IU capsule of vitamin D, crush the selenium tablets and dissolve in a little hot water, add oil, cool and give orally, would do today and again tomorrow.  They definitely need the vitamin D, so if you do not have any tablets available you could use the injectable A&D - I just try not to start injections on kid goats within a days of age because they have such small muscles.  

Re selenium for the whole herd, I mix up a batch of oral drench for the whole herd - did I send you the selenium dosing I have for ages of goats?  Then mix well, draw in a syringe - you'll have to note how much water mixed in to be sure everyone gets a correct amount - then give orally - usually twice a year is all they need.  You can also mix into a batch of my no bake goat granola bars - I can send you that recipe if I have not.  

Let me know - Donna

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QUESTION: Hi Donna , the kids seem to be responding to the treatment of selenium and d vitamin . One is able to free stand and walk a bit on shaky legs The other is able to push himself up to his knees and get around that way , won't be long and he will be doing his happy dance . They're pretty awesome , wagging their tails every time they hear me . I've made sure they get to moms teat a few times a day , so i guess when they hear me they know something good is going to happen . I haven't got the selenium dosing instructions from you , and I'd love to have your goat granola recipe . I do have another pressing problem maybe you can offer me suggestions on . Annie a first time freshener , has a lot of milk , much more that the kid can handle . Tonight i put her on the milk stand , and that did not go well at all . After a long struggle of kicking and bouncing i managed to milk down the unused side , O and she also likes to lay down when all else fails . Never had one like this before , and she has to learn as this is her job here . Any suggestions how i can make this smoother for us both ? Thanks

Answer
Good to hear the kid goats are doing well and responding - nice.  I will send you the granola recipe.  Re Annie - only feeding grain when she is in the milk stand, tying three legs together at the pastern area will help her to learn not to jump and it will make it difficult for her to lay down easily.  About all I can say is to work with her on the stand as much as you can - and I'm sure you're already doing that.  So, no grain except on the stand.  Hope that helps - let me know.  

PS  If I have a doe who likes to lay down or is a bit skittish on the stand I place the stand so one side is to the wall of my barn and that way I can lean up and into her, takes a few tries on her part to jump and fall down but that soon passes with my pressure under and pushing into her.

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Donna Ruelas-Semasko/Edelweiss Acres

Expertise

All goat health care, nutrition, judging questions about all goats - packgoats, dairy goats, pygmy goats, meat goats, fleece goats.

Experience

27 years health care/nutrition of all types of goats, 17 years experience in packgoats, 20 years experience in 4H goat projects as leader, superintendent and judge. 20 years experience in putting on goat care/nutrition seminars.

Organizations
NAPgA, The Evergreen Packgoat Club, 4H, ADGA.

Publications
Hobby Farm, many newspapers, 4H newsletters, Packgoat Manuals (youth and general), judging information pamphlets, seminar handouts about health care and nutrition.

Education/Credentials
4 years of college, ongoing education in goats.

Awards and Honors
Small Farm Award of Thurston County

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