Goats/sick kid

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QUESTION: Hi Donna , glad your back . A few days ago I noticed a 5 week old kid with diarrhea , and thinking it was moms milk I started controlling how much and often she gets it . This hasn't helped a lot , and she seems to be  her appitite . The poo is green so I started treating for coccidiosis with the amprol yesterday and I gave her a scour medicine which has slowed it down . A bit of tooth grinding this morning and last 2 days shivery , so i'm thinking pen mayby ? and this morning i'm giving probiotics .

ANSWER: What is her temperature? The green certainly sounds like coccidiosis.  I like sulmet or other sulfa meds to treat coccidiosis.  Is she bloated at all? Any sloshing in the tummy?  I use pepto bismol to help control the diarrhea.  The shivering could be a fever.  You can't use two antibiotics together otherwise they cancel each other out.  If you have a sulfa medicine then that would treat possible pneumonia too.  Probiotics is also a good idea.  Ever get the Biosponge?  That works well on cocci too.  The teeth grinding is from pain in the tummy - the cocci work on eating the papillae in the rumen and causes pain.

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QUESTION: Hi Donna , her temp is normal . There is a bit of a breeze blowing in the open door , helps dry out the barn floor through the day when the girls are out , so I put a heat lamp , and as I'm pretty sure its not moms fault I put her mom with her . She is not bloated , and no sloshing in her belly . The remedy I use for cocci is called Amprol 9.6% , and is mixed at 77cc apple juice and 35cc Amprol , given over 5 days at 8cc twice a day . Usually into the second day I see results . I don't think this one is an antibiotic , but the vet never said it wasn't . I did however give her a shot of noramycin to see if things improve , and since this morning things seem better already , teeth grinding has stopped and can't see any more traces of diarrhea , and yes I need to get some more pepto also . For the moment the scour med seems to be doing the trick , but I don't like using it on kids , afraid I'll plug her up . Thanks

ANSWER: Thanks for the update.  Amprol (amprolium) is an antibiotic.  Would use one or the other.  Glad she is better though.  I use human peptobismol on the kids - easy on their tummies and stops the diarrhea quickly without constipating them.  Hope that helps - Donna

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QUESTION: Hi Donna , so the Amprol is not a poison made to kill the cocci , but rather an antibiotic ? What other applications does this stuff have ? I have used the de metox before with some success for the same problem cocci , but the vet at the time , from Germany , told me the Amprol was better , especially because of the wet climate we sometimes have here . Re Maple , look at her go , lol , wow this girl is a walking miracle , putting on weight and eating like a horse . I'm some glad I stayed in for the long run , if I had of done what I wanted to , put her down , she never would have had a chance to enjoy her life and that bothers me . Thanks

Answer
Amprolium is an antibiotic made to kill the coccidia.  It's brand name is Corid.  I have found that the best anticoccidostat is Sulfamethazine (known as Sulmet - comes in liquid form) as it works very fast, easy to give and also kills pneumonia bacteria.  Amprolium does work second best - I have used Corid when I was out of Sulmet and it did the trick.  I do not use Albon or Dimethox.  But with that said, it is whatever you have available - the coccidia in your pastures (everyone in the world has coccidia issues) may be more susceptible to the Amprolium - and it sounds like your vet seems to know.  But we have a very wet climate here in Washington state all the time and the Sulmet works the best for us around here.   

I am so happy about little Maple - what a great job you did - hanging in there and doing everything you could.  I have had the same thoughts when it comes to some of the rescue goats and sheep I take in - on their death bed literally, no rumen function, skinny (perhaps a lumbar score of less than one), and ill with pneumonia and worms - the vets do not take on these goats but I decided to try and most all have come back well so they can go to a loving home - but I know it takes time, money and more time, and there is frustration when things just don't seem to be working - but I have always made the commitment to try everything I can think of to get them better and, thankfully, like Maple, they have come back.  Tough road to hoe for us goat caretakers with a heart!  


Was looking at the amprolium chemical site and you are correct that it is a toxin that does not allow the coccidia to grow, so many of us goat folks use the term antibiotic loosely as anything that is killing a bacteria or protozoa (coccidia).  Glad you threw that out there.    With that said, that is another reason I use Sulmet first as it is a true antibiotic that kills anything bad - coccidia, bacteria, etc.  My preventative treatment for shipping fever is giving Sulmet for 2 days prior to shipping and for 2 days after they arrive (during shipment if it is going to be more than a day).  I also use the Sulmet to prevent coccidiosis by starting the kid goats at one week of age on 1.5 cc/15 pounds body weight (either given as an oral drench mixed with a sweetener as the sulmet tastes terrible, or added to their bottle) once a day for 7 days, then off for two weeks, back on every day for 7 days, off for two weeks, etc.  I stop at 2 months of age as by that time stresses are not usually heavy enough to cause the coccidia to grow.  
Keep me posted - Donna

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Donna Ruelas-Semasko/Edelweiss Acres

Expertise

All goat health care, nutrition, judging questions about all goats - packgoats, dairy goats, pygmy goats, meat goats, fleece goats.

Experience

27 years health care/nutrition of all types of goats, 17 years experience in packgoats, 20 years experience in 4H goat projects as leader, superintendent and judge. 20 years experience in putting on goat care/nutrition seminars.

Organizations
NAPgA, The Evergreen Packgoat Club, 4H, ADGA.

Publications
Hobby Farm, many newspapers, 4H newsletters, Packgoat Manuals (youth and general), judging information pamphlets, seminar handouts about health care and nutrition.

Education/Credentials
4 years of college, ongoing education in goats.

Awards and Honors
Small Farm Award of Thurston County

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