Goats/Cocci

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QUESTION: Hi, my kid goats have basically had cocci since the day they were born (they're 2 weeks old now) so I bought them and took them to the vet to find out they did have cocci. Well they were given medicine for cocci and diarrhea and they didn't get better so I took them back and they were again given medicine. Well I have put a good amount of money in them by now and I don't really want to take them back to the vet but they still have diarrhea although they act fine(but they always have) so my question is are they going to get better now that they are done with their medicine or do I need to take them to the vet again??(which I don't really want to do but will if needed)

ANSWER: Hi Lauren:
I have not heard of newborns having cocci -  did he do a fecal and  make sure this  is what is going on? What are they eating? Are you bottle feeding? Are you using milk replacer? Is mom feeding them? What color is the poop? How soft is it? Did you take a rectal temp? What is it? I need to know some of these things before I can even begin to try to figure out what may be going on..  and you say they act fine?  not hanging heads and tucking tails? But playing normally - not hollering out or anything? Let me know these things and we can go from there -

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Yes he did a fecal. And they are  using goat milk replacer yes. Poop is varying between greens and browns. It sometimes is like runny but not complete liquid. Other times it'll actually be thick enough to actually drop like it should but definitely not like normal goats. I havent got a temp on them. I don't really know how. (My first goats) and they act. Very energetic. When I go to their pen to play with them I'll run around and they'll chase me and my dogs. They only scream when it's time to eat but they grind their teeth all the time

ANSWER: HI Lauren
The milk replacer is most likely the culprit here -  this is common  and happens far too many times,, people's babies seem to do well on it , then they get scours (poopy butts)  and in a few weeks go downhill. I cannot tell you how many times I hear this from people -  I am including an article I want you to read - it tells you how to feed them  - and how to change them from replace to milk -  so far you are lucky and none of them are actually sick yet -  remember with goats - runny butt is a symptom of something else going on - it always means something.  Never ignore it. Bottle Feeding Baby Goat - http://goat-link.com/content/view/94/76/
Milk vs Replacer : http://goat-link.com/content/view/197/192/
Digestion of the baby Goat:  http://goat-link.com/content/view/99/86/
Baby Goat Scouring: http://goat-link.com/content/view/46/75/

The following is part of my article for you to read right away- then go read those I sent you

Good call on your part to be concerned -  I will bet in a week after they have changed form this replacer to milk- the scouring will stop and they will be fine.
BTW my website is designed to help new goat owners like yourself.

Let me know how they do after they are changed over to milk



Feeding Bottle Baby Goats

The most important thing I can stress when feeding bottle baby goats is to try and do what a natural goat mom would do- The first few days goat moms allow the babies to eat many times per day but if you watch them they only eat a small amount each time, as they get older, mom will only stand to allow them to nurse for a certain amount of time and then walk away- so babies learn to eat more at each feeding - giving bottle babies 2 or 3 huge bottles a day in the first weeks is not only harmful for the baby's digestive system but really not fair to the baby.
After they receive colostrum (Mother's first milk) For the first 24 hours of life, bottle fed kids should be fed fresh (or frozen) goat's milk if at all possible. If you cannot get fresh goat's milk, you can use whole (not 2%) cows milk from the store. I do not recommend using fresh cow's milk UNLESS you know for a fact the farm is certified because the transfer of Johne's or CAE to a baby goat from the cow's milk is possible. In a PINCH You CAN use Canned milk ONLY if you read the ingredients- do NOT used what is called FILLED Evaporated milk- Many canned milks are part soy, Never use this. Use only whole canned milk if you need to.(Diluted in half with water) Carnation canned cow's milk is whole milk without soy and is safe to use.
DO NOT FEED POWDERED MILK REPLACERS/FORMULA!
Milk Replacers Kill Baby Goats!!- Milk Replacers KILL Baby Goats!!! MILK REPLACERS KILL BABY GOATS!!!!!
I know this is ridiculous to put this way BUT Please people.. Trust me.. while there may be an unusual case of milk replacers NOT killing baby goats BUT they do more than they do not Unless the breeder is able to get the scouring baby turned around before they die! I cannot stress this hard enough.
Real whole milk, even raw milk from a cow, is much better for them than milk replacer , which can cause diarrhea and floppy kid syndrome. Very often, problems with bottle fed kids stem from the use of milk replacer. I cannot tell you how many emails and phone calls I get a week (sometimes so many in just a DAY) from gals who are losing kids due to kid milk replacers- Even the "best" replacers. "Even" the ones that say "kid replacer" Just don't use them. They are expensive and really not your best choice.



    OMG! But How do I change them over? Just start giving them milk?

   Surprised  Well you could but it probably won't help the digestion any because any sudden change in diet will give gut upset and intestinal issues.  Rather change themover gradually and here's how:
   The best way to change from replacer to milk is:

   Mix up a quart of any good livestock electrolyte mix (I prefer Vi-Tal) But any good MILKLESS electrolyte powdered solution will work  (read the ingredients) , ( or in a pinch you can use gatorade, pediolyte or  sports drink) , add to each bottle 2 pumps of  goat nutri-drench (or equivalent) and a  tsp of molasses or corn syrup to each bottle for energy.

   This will be a 4 day feeding process:

        Day 1- use this exclusively in all bottles
        Day 2 -give 1/2 this solution and half milk (regular  whole cows milk from the grocer)
        Day 3- give 2/3 milk and 1/3 this solution
        Day 4-give all whole milk

   This allows the baby goat to adjust to the change gradually and reduces the chance of further gut upset.


---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: So just the milk, I don't add water to it? (Once I change them to milk) and thankyou soooooo much!!!

Answer
You are More than welcome!

Yes, Once you have them changed over -  just milk according to the feeding schedule in my article
IF it is easier for you  to get evaporated milk -  you can give them evaporated milk (NOT Sweetened condensed milk) cut with water half and half,  either way - whole milk is best - and I ever use the fancy formula for my kids.. I see no need to unless you have a scrawny kid who needs extra nutrition.



Guideline for Bottle Baby Dairy Goat Feeding Schedule
Pygmy and Nigerian Goat Baby Amounts in [ ]:

   * Day one- 2-4oz. [1-3] (per feeding) colostrum, every 2-3 hours.
   * Day two- 3 oz. [2-3] (per feeding) colostrum if you have it or whole milk, 8-10 times a day
   * Day three- 4 oz.[3] (per feeding) colostrum if you have it or whole milk, 8 times a day
   * Day four- 6oz. [4-5] (per feeding) whole milk, 7-8 times a day.
   * Week One - 6-8oz [4-5] (per feeding) whole milk, 7-8 times a day.
   * For the next 2 weeks-6-8oz.[4-6] (per feeding) whole milk, 6 times a day.
   * For the next 2 months-10-12 oz.[6-8] (per feeding)whole milk, 4-5 times a day.
   * For the next 1 month or 6 weeks-10-12 oz. [6-8] (per feeding)whole milk, 3 times a day.
   * 10-12 oz. [8-10] (per feeding) once a day for the next 2 months.


This is JUST a guideline- Adjust as needed - start with the recommended amount and feel the baby's tummy- Stop when it feels full but not tight- measure what is left in the bottle and feed what the baby ate- as the baby grows add to that amount according to size.
When dealing with larger babies and babies over 2 weeks of age you can go by baby weight. Figure 15% of the kid's weight in milk spread over a 24 hour period. A 10lb kid "could " get away with 4 feedings at 6 ounces each totaling 24 ounces which is about 15% of the body weight in milk- a 15lb kid would need a total of 36oz a day in 9 ounce feedings 4 times per day- this again is a guideline and needs to be increased gradually. Any time you bottle feed a young kid under 2 weeks old it is ideal if possible to offer smaller feedings more often but in the case of working parents this may not always be possible.

let me know how things are going  :)

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Goatlady

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Specializing in New Goat Owner understanding of goat physiology, goat anatomy, goat care and herd management. *I am not a veterinarian, any advice and information should be verified by your veterinarian before administering to your goats. (! During times of severe weather in the Midwest, I may experience a delay in internet service due to the interference of the satellite reception - but will answer your questions as soon as service is restored. !) Note: Keep in mind, the goat expert is volunteering her time to help other goat owners, she also runs her farm with her own herd of 100 goats and may not be at her computer at all hours. Questions are answered as soon as she can possibly read and answer them, usually within 24 hours.

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23 years experience of raising goats and herd management. Active hands on experience with goat herd and research with various Caprine University Research and Extension Centers nationwide. 15 years dedicated to helping other goat breeders/owners with goat anatomy, goat disease and goat health care issues via phone, published goat care articles and internet interaction. The information I have to offer is not only from personal experience and years of research updated often as new information is made available to me, but supported by many Veterinary Research colleges and all medications and information I have to offer on how the medications work and what dosages "I" use, is information I have acquired by discussing directly with the company's veterinarians and staff research experts.

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12 year active member of International Veterinary Information Service

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United Caprine News, Homesteaders Magazine, Columnist for Goat Magazine, Owner and Author of GoatPedia™

Education/Credentials
Graduate Programs in Medicine, Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Stanford University

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