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Goats/Mangy and thin goat

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QUESTION: I have an Oberhasli doe that kidded in March with a boy and girl.  She's in a large (but not large enough) area with other goats.  She was staying fat while the kids were on her however she has yet to shed out her winter coat and has lost weight.  The other doe I have that kidded before her looked mangy and was thing but then she finally put on weight and blew her coat this spring.  I wormed all the goats with Cydectin pour-on on the first of June (which I used as a pour-on)and they all look fine (matter of fact the buck and his companion in a seperate pen even looks better after I wormed them) but her.  I have since sunday started giving Corid to all the goats.  I took the kids away from this doe because she was looking so pathetic.  Then today when I was trying to itch the loose hair out of her I noticed it was leaving almost bald spots.  She does look a little fatter though and has gone back to bullying the young goats around.  And has been comming out of the house more.  I don't feed grain because everyone looked fine on the hay I was feeding.  I was feeding a nice orchard/timothy 12% protien but have since gone to local horse fescue due to trouble with the round bales wanting to mold due to the wet weather.  The only one who got grain was the other doe who was producing way more milk than this one.  Now, the doe in question did bag up and has since stopped producing and her bag is now shrinking normally.  I don't know if I need to try deworming her with another wormer and probably giving her some extra feed.  I had loose minerals but everytime I fill them they pooped in them and they weren't really eating them anyhow.  They did however like the mineral block.  Plus, when I added the loose minerals to the feed they just picked around them.  So I don't know if I need to deworm again and if so how much and what kind and if I should do everyone, and probably start giving grain.  I don't know the protien content of this hay but they like it.  And I've heard with giving Corid there's a supplement that should be given with it.  Its being given as a drench 1/day.  I kept wanting to do a fecal exam but have yet to do one.  When I checked this winter everyone looked good execpt my one young doe whom I gave the goat safeguard to.  The pellets look normal though.  All the rest of the goats look fine.  I think there coats could look a little more shiney but otherwise weight wise they look fine and act fine.  thank you.

ANSWER: First thing I would say is that pour on wormers are not meant for goats and can be toxic to them.  If her poop looks like normal pellets then this is probably not a worm issue.  If the poop looks like dog poop then it most likely is at least partially a worm issue.  I would be happy to give you the worming regimen we use on our goats and have for 28 years with great success.  As to the loss of hair and the goat being thin, I would assume this is a selenium deficiency.  Some goats only need a little selenium but others need more.  We use the following regimen on our goats 3 to 4 times a year as well as giving this 4 weeks prior to kidding and 4 weeks after kidding.  Even though we use a loose mineral salt (general livestock) that has selenium in it this is not always enough for every goat.  For adult goats the regimen is using ten of the 200 mcg selenium tablets (human) crushed and dissolved in a little hot water and to that mixture add all the oil from a 1000 IU capsule of vitamin E and all the oil from an 800 IU capsule of vitamin D, mix well, cool and give orally.  For loss of hair you would give this once and repeat in 10 days at which time you should see the start of improvement in the hair coat.  Some does have more difficulty than others in getting back to good weight after kidding and need grain to up their protein level to 16% which is needed to give them good weight.  We use a general livestock feed (pelleted) that is 14% protein and to that add calf manna (using only about 1/2 to 1 cup of the calf manna to 4 cups of grain).  Would not use Corid unless there is definite green diarrhea.  Hope this helps - let me know - Donna

---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: If I may ask... What is your worming regiment.  I know all areas are different as well as circumstances but I didn't know if I could use it as a reference to look at and maybe use.  Plus, I was wondering what you'd recommend (which may be worked into your regiment)prior and after kidding, especially if I'm going to be using the milk for myself.  And the loose minerals that I was using, and still have, are Golden Blend minerals for goats:
CALCIUM (CA)   MIN 13.00%   MAGANESE (ME)    MIN .030%
CALCIUM (CA)   MAX 15.60%    ZINC (ZN)   MIN 0.40%
PHOSPHORUS (P)    MIN 7.00%   COPPER (CU)   MIN 0.15%
SALT (NACL)    MIN 20.00%   COBALT (CO)   MIN 0.006%
SALT (NACL   MAX 24.00%   IODINE (I)    MIN 0.007%
MAGNESIUM (MG)   MIN 1.00%   SELENIUM (SE)    12 MG/LB
POTASSIUM (K)   MIN 0.90%   VITAMIN A    MIN 220K USP UNITS/LB
SULFUR (S0)   MIN 1.20%   VITAMIN D MIN   MIN 45K USP UNITS/LB
IRON (FE)   MIN 1.00%   VITAMIN E MIN   MIN 220 INT UNITS/LB
Thank you, and I'll have to get the items to do the selenium mix.

Answer
Hi there - You are correct about different areas and circumstances re wormers.  We use, and this has worked for many folks across the country too, is the following regimen.  Using Safeguard oral horse wormer (fenbendazole) and Zimectrin (ivermectin) oral horse wormer switching back and forth every 2 months.  You would use twice your goat's body weight to find the dose on the plunger and then place the lock there.  Start with one wormer and 2 months later switch to the other wormer.  Most all feed stores have these and may also have "generic" ones available too.  With 27 goats I usually purchase mine on the internet purchasing the generic ones at a lesser price.  I use the milk too and I usually don't even stop drinking the milk but then that is my choice.  I generally advise going 72 to 96 hours of not drinking the milk although you can give that milk to other farm animals and pets with no issues that I have found.  These wormers kill most all stomach worms including lung worms, liver flukes and the barber pole worm.The mineral mix you have is fine.  I use a general livestock loose mineral as it is less expensive and has the same amount of minerals in it.  My goats love the minerals and I am always having to refill the containers but I still have several goats that need the extra selenium all the time.  Hope this helps - Donna  

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Donna Ruelas-Semasko/Edelweiss Acres

Expertise

All goat health care, nutrition, judging questions about all goats - packgoats, dairy goats, pygmy goats, meat goats, fleece goats.

Experience

27 years health care/nutrition of all types of goats, 17 years experience in packgoats, 20 years experience in 4H goat projects as leader, superintendent and judge. 20 years experience in putting on goat care/nutrition seminars.

Organizations
NAPgA, The Evergreen Packgoat Club, 4H, ADGA.

Publications
Hobby Farm, many newspapers, 4H newsletters, Packgoat Manuals (youth and general), judging information pamphlets, seminar handouts about health care and nutrition.

Education/Credentials
4 years of college, ongoing education in goats.

Awards and Honors
Small Farm Award of Thurston County

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