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Goats/Nigi w/ diahrrea

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QUESTION: 2 questions. First, I have a 3 yr old Nigi buck w/ severe diarrhea. I have treated him w/ safeguard for 3 days @ 1cc per 10 lbs and also ivemectrin paste for 3 days. He is abt 50 pds. He ahs free choice mineral for goats and baking soda also. Clean water w/ acv in it also. Vet run fecel and tested for stronglytes.  What can i do?   Second thing, I have an 8 month nubian buck ( deparate from t=other buck) who had runny poo. Fecel showed stronglytes also. He was treated w/ same meds and is starting to kick it. Doing real well. Problem is, he lost alot of weight through the last 2 weeks. What can I give him to build him up before winter? He is a rack of bones in my opinion right now. I have noble goat, sweet mix for goats, alfalfa pellets and also BOSS. How much of what should he have daily with out hurting him?

ANSWER: What color diarrhea is it?  Generally worms do not cause diarrhea but cause dog poop style poop.  When you say safeguard are you using the goat type?  If so I advise against that but instead use the oral horse wormer.  Dosing for either safeguard or zimectrin (ivermectin) oral horse wormers are using 2 times the goat's weight to find the dosing on the plunger, if the weight is such that you cannot find the dose on the plunger because the goat does not weigh enough for that dosing, you use 1 inch of the paste for an adult goat.  Either of these oral wormers will work well.  All goats generally have some worm ova in their system at any time.  If the diarrhea is brown then it can be either digestive upset or a bacterial intestinal infection.  If it is green it is coccidiosis.  If it is white to cream it is E. coli.  If it is yellow it is enterotoxemia.  

Re your second buck who seems to be doing better, what color are his lower inner eyelids?  If light pink to white then you are also dealing with anemia and this could be from the barber pole worm, which needs a different dosing of wormer as well as iron supplements.  (I would also check the lower inner eyelids of the first goat).

If goat poop is pelleted then the issue is most likely not worm caused.

The main issue in nutrition for bucks and wethers is that they must have a 2:1 or a 3:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio in their feed, otherwise they are at high risk of getting urinary calculi.  Alfalfa is high in calcium so is not good for them.  Goat chows also quite often are not good for bucks and wethers - looking at the ingredients will help you figure out what the ratios are.  

Is the goat getting any hay/roughage?  A general nutrition formula for baseline maintenance of weight in goats is 1/4 to 1/3 grain to 3/4 to 2/3 hay/roughage feeding 3 to 4% of the goat's body weight daily.  If you need to increase a goat's weight then you go to 5 to 6% of the goat's weight.  

If I need to increase a goat's weight they are given a special formula of pelleted general goat feed with 14% protein along with calf manna, baby rice cereal, probiotic, and powdered milk replacer.  

Let me know about my questions and I will get back to you with more info.  Donna

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QUESTION: As for the nigi w/ diarrhea. It looks so dark that could be dark green possible black. Lat night was 3rd dose for him ( safeguard horse past) but poop did look like mush at this point. He has been treated w/ sulmet also. The second buck. His poo was like doggy poo and is almost back to pelleted form. His eyelids are a med pink now, so may need iron for sure. How do I give this and where do i buy it or can I give OTC human tablets? As for nutrition. I found that noble goat has meds in it for urinary calculai so I thought imay try that. Someone also suggested a protein tub to help build weight. Have u tried that?

ANSWER: Thanks for info.  Are they on any hay or roughage?  The possibly green color could certainly be coccidiosis  but an O&P as the vet did for other eggs should have shown an abundance of cocci if this was the issue.  Sulmet certainly will not hurt him as long as he is getting probiotics along with it to keep his rumen going strong.  You can also give the one buck with the severe diarrhea pepto bismol at 1/2 cup per 50 to 75 pounds body weight every 4 to 6 hours until the diarrhea is better.  The ammonium chloride that some goat feeds have in them are not enough to keep urinary calculi away especially if the calcium to phosphorus ratio is not 2:1 or 3:1.  If they are not on a good hay would start them on that as their rumens need the scratch factor that hay/roughage has.  Would stay away from alfalfa.  Re iron, if the eyelids are medium pink that is okay.  But you can give iron, and I use Geritol giving one teaspoon per 25 pounds body weight once to twice a day for 7 to 10 days.  Re the protein tub, those can be good but you have to watch to be sure the goats do not overeat.  I do not use them.  I use the mix above, and I also give bread to add some fat to their body - usually give one package of bread for 3 to 5 goats once a day.  If the goats are on probiotics would definitely add that - you can use the powder form or use yogurt daily.  Hope this helps - Donna

Did forget to ask if they are eating and drinking well.  If not we would need to add another regimen for them.  Also, have you taken a temperature on either? Normal is up to 102.5 and anything over that usually indicates an infection.

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QUESTION: Yes they both are on good hay and still have pasture grass to forage thru as well. Have not taken either temp. Both are eating well also. I will start iron on the one who is doing better and wait until I see a change to start on the other. I did not catch the type of pellet u feed. Not sure which route to go here. They offer so many and I do not want urinary calcai. I will also get some rice cereal as well as calf manna and start the 1 on who has lost weight. Thank u for ur reply and will let u know how it goes.

Answer
Thanks for the info.  I use a general livestock pelleted feed - each feed store has it's own brand, but it is usually always 12 to 14%, has vitamins and minerals, and usually has a 2:1 at least calcium to phosphorus ratio and sometimes 3:1.  Hope this helps - Donna

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Donna Ruelas-Semasko/Edelweiss Acres

Expertise

All goat health care, nutrition, judging questions about all goats - packgoats, dairy goats, pygmy goats, meat goats, fleece goats.

Experience

27 years health care/nutrition of all types of goats, 17 years experience in packgoats, 20 years experience in 4H goat projects as leader, superintendent and judge. 20 years experience in putting on goat care/nutrition seminars.

Organizations
NAPgA, The Evergreen Packgoat Club, 4H, ADGA.

Publications
Hobby Farm, many newspapers, 4H newsletters, Packgoat Manuals (youth and general), judging information pamphlets, seminar handouts about health care and nutrition.

Education/Credentials
4 years of college, ongoing education in goats.

Awards and Honors
Small Farm Award of Thurston County

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