AboutGerry Magill Expertise I am a Software Architect employed by a large multi-national communications company providing VoIP and tradtional TDM communications to Enterprise customers.
Experience
Past/Present clients IBM, SBS, Siemens, KPMG, Bank Berlin, Commerzbank
Expert: Gerry Magill Date: 5/6/2008 Subject: web conferencing
Question Hello again Gerry, firstly thanks again for your assistance. I am definitely able to speak over VoIP or using MSN, Yahoo or ICQ. So we can decide whether it is easier to make contact in the morning or evening depending on what time zone are you in, mine is GMT+8?
Yes I agree that a pure IP solution is the best alternative in our position. The purchase of a quality camera is not an issue, however is it better to go for a decent microphone rather than a phone for ease of use (ie mobility). I also like the idea of a VPN as this will be more secure and provide our end users with an access point better for sharing documents. Unfortunately one problem I have encountered in my research is the presence of both vista and xp, therefore a substitute to NetMeeting or Meeting Space will no doubt be required. It is no doubt better to discuss the pros and cons when we get a chance to chat.
Your generosity is especially appreciated for me to look at your system to see if it provides the desired capabilities. I have installed the X-Lite client, I have internet access and a webcam and so would be great if we can arrange sometime soon that is convenient for both of us to have an online chat about some options.
Thanks again
Joseph
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This is the old thread
QUESTION: We are a small business with remote persons nationally located. Every 6 weeks or so we must have meetings with all persons which go for a full day. We would like advice on what software/ hardware you would recommend for this process, for best quality and cheapest option. Ideally video and audio transfer between the office and up to 3 different users in different places. I have been researching different web conferencing, tele and video conferencing services and server options. However as an expert I appreciate your recommendations or advice and would like to know any suggestions you have. From MSN to server setups
Thank you
ANSWER: Before I give you a detailed answer Id like a little more information about your infrastructure so I can narrow down the options that will work for you.
1) Are your remote persons part of a VPN network with your main location? i.e. how do they connect to you today to copy files, etc? Are you just puerly using the internet or do you have your own IT infrastructure with a shared IP-Address space between sites?
2) How much up-link bandwidth do you have at each location? Down-link speed is usually much fast than your up-link speed and this becomes the bottle-neck in any design. Are your remote workers connected via their home DSL or do you have T1's, etc?
3) What is your current telephone infra-structure? Is it TDM based? Do your remote workers have simple analog connections or do they have ISDN basic-rate / pri-rate lines?
4) Are your remote sites single home workers or do you plan to have several people at one location? The reason I ask that is to understand what kind of camera or TV setup you will require at the far end. If its just one person they could use their PC and a web-cam but if its 5-6 people, you would probably want a better cam and large screen display, right?
Thanks.
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QUESTION: 1) Purely using internet however am setting up a wedsite based intranet to post files for them to download
2) ADSL is used at all location 1.5 Mbps
3) NOrmal telephone landline and mobile network is used
4) several people at main office, however only one person at each of the other locations so can just use personal web cam
Hope this makes it easier
Thanks Again
Joseph
ANSWER: This certainly helps understand what you are looking for.
With that in mind, what we would be looking at is not to invest in high end video hardware at the far end but rather to pursue a web-cam based approach.
For the main office, you could also go with a PC hooked up to an over head projector and place the web-cam somewhere up high, that gives a good view of the participants. Or you could invest in some permanent hardware that does IP based video conferencing.
There are several approaches as to how to hook all this up to the IP network to allow everyone to connect with as much ease as possible. The solutions vary in price depending on what level of comfort you want, i.e. ease of use, high or low definition video / audio, single or multiple microphones in the main office conference room and whether you want everyone to be able to see you at the main office, or if you want to be able to see them at the same time.
The video conferencing most freeware offers is pretty simple in its capabilities. Normally you can see the person you are talking to and they can see you in a simple two party call but when it comes to conferencing options and demands increase. For example, do you want to see all the far end users in small windows at the same time? Do you want the far end useres to be able to see all the other far end users and yourself - each in a small window? Do you want the person that is speaking to pop to the foreground automatically or not?
The same is true with audio conferencing. Single microphone options work great for 1:1 calls but are aweful in a conference room with 3 or more participants. The acoustics of your room and the table size, will affect the far end users ability to hear you all clearly. Multiple microphones are generally a good idea, but you might get away with a good multi-directional conference room phone - again it depends on the number of participants in the main office and the size of the room.
If you can give me some final pointers on those points, I shall provide you with a few solutions.
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QUESTION: Additional Information
The hardware costs are not of as much concern as the ongoing costs. As there will be a high frequency of use An initial high price would not be considered a problem. As some of the participants outside the office have a lower level of computer
literacy ease of use is definitely an issue. As is clarity so preferably high definition aspects of audio and video would be desirable. There could be multiple microphones at the office however generally only one person would be speaking at a time so may not be necessary. I think the users outside the office will need to see everything in the office however it is not essential for us to see them, audio
would be sufficient. Usually it will be at least 2 separate users outside the office who would like to see most that is going on in the office especially the speaker. The speaker will occasionally be making presentations as well that the end users may need to see. The far end users will only need to see the office and not each other and the office should be able to hear them and maybe share documents. THe number of participants in the main office will usually be above 3 around 10ish although they will generally be speaking one at a time.
I hope this explains our situation thoroughly enough.
Thank you very much for your help it is greatly appreciated
Joseph
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Thats an excellent description. Thanks.
OK - given your requirements, I would really suggest you begin with something free and then find its short comings - if any. We can work to resolve those in a second step.
I would propose you first start with Microsoft NetMeeting. Are you familiar with this? It is free product delivered with every Windows PC (except VISTA machines).
This software allows you to do video conferencing of the type you want, i.e. Main office broadcasting to end users in a one to many fashion.
This can be done on a PC in the main office, attached to an overhead projector and webcam. I would use NetMeeting for video and for document sharing only. I would not attempt to do audio over it.
For audio I would suggest you purchase a conference room phone from Polycom. These units are the best value for money you can get. They come in simple desktop versions for small offices, right up to larger versions which have the capability to add additional microphones.
The problem you are going to have with NetMeeting however, is that the far end user will have to be in the same IP-Address space as the main office. Netmeeting does not work when a NAT is involved (i.e. your DSL modem multiplexes your one internet IP-Address into multiple local IP-Addresses inside the office. To get around this, you can setup a VPN server in the main office. These come as compact $250 units, such as the Secure Computing SG300:
This allows your far-end users to securely start a password protected VPN tunnel to the main office and obtain an IP-Address just as if they were seated beside you. This also gives them instant secure access to files you have on your network too. Once the VPN tunnel is up, they can use Netmeeting to connect to you and to see your video feed and to share your desktop for presentations, etc.
They would then use their home phone or cell phone to dial into a audio conference bridge so everyone can hear and talk to each other.
Audio conference bridges can be hosted by any of the many telco conference bridge providers. These are available at a monthly rental fee.
If you dont want to pay running costs for a conference bridge, we can look at setting up your own free conference bridge or consider moving your audio communications to voice over IP. There are lots of free solutions for that too. It just depends how much of your time you want to invest in the initial setup.
Before I go any further, let me know if you are familiar with Netmeeting or not and if it might work for you. If not, I have lots and lots of other suggestions. Perhaps a telephone call might speed things up? If so, I can give you my number via Email. I dont want to post it on here.
Regards,
Gerry
Hi Gerry apparantly I have asked to many questions for a follow up so I have had to start a new thread. Original questions and replies have been included after my new questions. Thanks
Thanks again for your rapid correspondence. Sorry I took so long to reply however I had a short holiday. Yes you are right it would be better to sort things out over the phone however I assume you are in the states, which is literally round the other side of the world from me as I am in Australia. Therefore it is probably better to continue using email. Feel free to email me directly if my email is available in the reply.
Yes free technology is definitely the best place to start. I have heard of NetMeeting, currently Meeting Space in Vista. It is essentially the relationship we require one to many. A few questions obviously it needs a VPN for users outside the office. Does this make the connection more reliable ie because of the direct connection to a server does this reduce the video latency as per msn? Additionally Is it possible to cast a web cam directly without the need for a projector? POssibly a multi directional camera (like roundtable) may be used to focus on the individual talking? Also is there any necessity for the end users to have computer knowledge, as stated in previous email the computer literacy of some personnel is questionable, so comparative ease of use is desirable?
Additionally how well would the software work in addition to VoIP software instead of private teleconferencing options. I have researched alot of these options and considering we are in another country these options do not look as cheap for a permanent solution. Due to the frequency of these meetings every six weeks for a full day the prices will start to weigh up as they seem to charge per second dependent on usage in addition to the monthly/ initial fee.
The initial setup costs are probably not as important as the ongoing costs, however we hope to set something up in the next week or so
Thanks again hoping to hear from you soon
Joseph
Hi Joseph,
I dont mind calling Australia as I get free calls there over my VoIP provider and I am willing to adjust due to the time difference. Another alternative is to use instant messaging. I have an address on yahoo, MSN messenger and ICQ - whatever works best for you.
If I were you, I would personally go to a pure IP solution for voice and video. The ease of use of such a setup and the near zero operating costs are really attractive. The initial outlay for a good multi directional camera and conference room phone will be recovered quickly and make the user experience a lot more pleasant.
Using a VPN will not help with QoS as the packets will still have to go accross the internet (wich has no QoS) to the far end user. All a VPN will get you, is access to your main office address space. These IP-Addresses are then encapsulated inside a tunnel accross the internet addressing space. However, it will make sharing documents much easier. For the $250 that a Secure Computing VPN router will cost you, it will be well worth it. It also means that you only need one of these units at your main office. The far end users will use Microsoft's built in VPN client to connect. A website with some simple screen shots will walk the user through the initial one time setup.
What I recommend we do is, you install a softclient phone on your PC that has video capabilities - I highly recommend the X-Lite free client from Counterpath. I will then give you access to my VoIP telephony server to connect your X-Lite phone to. We can then try out the ease of use of video conferencing using this method. You will require a webcam - any kind will work. You can also hear the voice quality, which I think you will find amazing - despite it going accross the internet.
Let me know when you have time.
Regards,
Gerry.
Answer Shoot me an email with your contact details to g_magill at hotmail.com and I will give you my server credentials to hook your x-lite client to.
I would recommend you take a look at this website:
I am not a sales rep or in any way connected with this company. However, their products are absolutely fantastic and work over IP. The unit comes with a panorama cam which broadcasts in HD quality. It also has a sound station for voice with a multi-directional set of microphones inside it.
You can connect to it on the far-end using x-lite. It would be worth the investment I think.
I can put you on my system and demo it to you if you'd like. I just happen to have a few of them for test purposes.
