Interspecies Conflict/Big battles

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hello,

Thanks so much for the previous very good answer

Dinosaurs and big mammals vs people

1) 18x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs Tyrannosaurus rex (great specimen 14m lenght 5,5m hight 10t weight)

2) 40x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs 2x acrocantosaurus (great specimen 12,5m lenght 7t weight)

3) 16x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs Songhua River Mammoth (great specimen 10m lenght 5,3m hight 18t weight)

4) 10x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike)  and fire. They have a good organization. vs Megatherium (5ton)

5) 8x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear  (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs 2 x 500 kg Smilodon populator
 
6) 25x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization vs 6 x Utahraptor (600 kg)

7) 25x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization vs 3 x Albertosaurus (2.5 t)

8) 4x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs 1000kg cave bear

9) 3x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs 400kg cave lion

10)10x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs  elasmotherium (6t)

The biggest Mammals ever: Songhua River Mammoth

1) Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs Apatosaurus (30t)
2) 2x Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs Argentinosaurus (95t)
3) Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs 10 x 500 kg Smilodon populator
4)Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs 15x 400kg cave lion
5)Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs 2x Daspletosaurus (9m lenght 3,5t weight)
6)Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs 4x 1400kg Ceratosaurus
7)Songhua River Mammoth (18t vs 8x 600kg Utahraptor


The scale power . 1-100 (all maximum size)
megahterium
Songhua River Mammoth
triceratops
t-rex
Daspletosaurus
ceratosaurus
indian elefant
hippo
white rhinoceras
arcthotherium angustidens
elasmotherium
Apatosaurus
Argentinosaurus
Barosaurus
brachiosaurus

Even with you on that topic ask, what do you think caused the extinction of Quaternary megafauna? (megatheriums, mammuts, mastodonts, elasmotheriums, 500kg cats, 1500kg bears)  I am convinced that it was climate change. Sometimes it indicates that the person, but I consider it utterly stupid to the human population that had no powerfull hunting weapons (hunting rifle), no castles, and that we were little. This view finds it illogical. One had the ability to cause the extinction of large species up to the 16-17 centuries. However, the most in the 18-19 century with the development of powerful hunting weapon.
In these centuries of civilization was very strong, widespread, with good hunting weapons, so it is logical that we caused the extinction of many species. (for example barbary lion, almost bizons)
In the prehistoric human civilization was nothing. No guns, no castles. And yet the animals were much more dangerous than the 16th century. The animals had to destroy the only climate change. Definitely not a human civilization that was about 100,000 people on the planet and had nothing. (only fire and primitive weapons) did not even exist the first civilization. For example, the Sumerian.
In prehistoric times, people could these animals occasionally catch or kill, but never the cause of their demise.
I'm interested in your opinion. What du you think??

Thank you very much for your answer.

Answer
Hello David.


Dinosaurs and big mammals vs people

1) 18x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs Tyrannosaurus rex (great specimen 14m length 5.5m height 10t weight): The action important by the hunters here will be to attack effectively while keeping a safe distance.  A Tyrannosaurus-rex can swallow a man whole, and killing 18 of them will be no problem if the battle brings it close to the hunters.  With an arsenal of bows & spears, the hunters should be able to wound the dinosaur enough to overcome it.  A good strategy would be to shoot the T-rex with the arrows to weaken it, and then move in a bit closer (but still at a safe distance) to hurl their spears to complete the kill.  They would need to be careful, because a Tyrannosaurus can step the length of an automobile with one stride, and can close the distance to pick off its attackers.  Edge to 18 prehistoric hunters.  

2) 40x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs 2x Acrocantosaurus (great specimen 12.5m length 7t weight): As with the last matchup, 20 hunters on each dinosaur should be sufficient.  The hunters will need to be careful not to run into the range of one Acrocantosaurus while avoiding the other, but they should be wary of this if they are well-organized.  Edge to 40 prehistoric hunters.

3) 16x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs Songhua River Mammoth (great specimen 10m length 5.3m height 18t weight): Using the same strategy used against the Tyrannosaurus, the 16 hunters should be able to overcome this huge mammal.  The mammoth is much larger than the T-rex, and will be harder to defeat, but attacking from a distance will be the key.  Getting close to the huge pachyderm will bring a risk of getting trampled, but if these hunters are indeed organized, they should be savvy enough to succeed.  They won't pull this off every time (the mammoth may run; the arrows/spears might not hit vital areas), but should be favored.  Edge to 16 prehistoric hunters.

4) 10x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike)  and fire. They have a good organization. vs Megatherium (5ton): Megatheriums (giant sloths) have tough hides reinforced with a layer of small bony growths (like a crocodile's osteoderms) that form a type of armor similar to chain mail armor.  This hide will give the Megatherium ample protection against the arrows & spears of the hunters over much of its body, but some areas (namely the head) may still be vulnerable.  The Megatherium's mobility is somewhat poor, and the hunters will have little trouble staying out of range of the giant sloth's huge, swiping forelimbs.  This may depend on how many arrows the hunters have, and how accurate they are at delivering them.  The hunters will find it difficult to kill the Megatherium, but the Megatherium won't be able to easily flee.  There are a few conditions at play here, and the outcome may go either way (perhaps being a stalemate).  Close to 50/50.

5) 8x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs 2 x 500 kg Smilodon populator: The agility, explosiveness, & speed of the Smilodon isn't as great as some modern big cats, but it is at a high enough level to present a problem for the attacking prehistoric hunters.  The spears might not find their mark, and the arrows won't cause enough initial damage to keep the Smilodons from rushing to counter-attack the hunters.  A Smilodon is powerful, stocky, & well-armed (long upper canines & sharp claws), and can easily dispatch many hunters in a short amount of time.  The hunters will have a chance to succeed if they use the fire to keep the great cats from approaching dangerously close, but it won't likely keep them safe throughout the entire encounter.  Probably close to 50/50.
 
6) 25x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization vs 6 x Utahraptor (600 kg): This will be a dangerous proposition for the hunters.  Utahraptors are quick & agile, are very well-armed (jaws, foreclaws, & hindclaws), and work well as a team (presumedly).  The spears won't be that effective without an ambush, and the arrows will alert the theropods to the hunters' presence.  The chances of several hunters getting killed are great, but 25 may be enough to eventually dispatch the Utahraptors before their numbers are exhausted.  Concentrating on 6 agile, dangerous theropods will be confusing to the most organized of hunters, and the Utahraptors will likely be able to mount a serious counter-attack.  Edge to 6 Utahraptors.

7) 25x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization vs 3 x Albertosaurus (2.5 t): Albertosaurus was a swift mover for its size (likely an adaptation to catch fleeing prey), but not fast enough to avoid arrows & spears.  The strategy of arrows first/spears second will be a good plan of action for the hunters so they can be certain that the function of the theropods is somewhat impeded before moving in closer.  Some hunters will likely die in the battle, but they should be successful more times than not.  Edge to 25 prehistoric hunters.

8) 4x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs 1000kg cave bear: If the fire can be carried (to keep the bear at bay if it charges toward the hunters as they pursue it), it will be helpful.  Enough arrows should weaken the bear, and the spears at closer range can finish it off.  A bear can move very quickly when angered or injured, and the hunters will need to be cautious.  The hunters should succeed more times than not.  Edge to 4 prehistoric hunters.

9) 3x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs 400kg cave lion: As with the Smilodons & the Utahraptors, the speed of this great cat will present a serious challenge for the 3 hunters.  The arrows will need to fly from afar, and the hunters will need to prepare for the cave lion to charge once it is hit.  The cave lion will be able to easily kill the hunters once in close range, and may succeed at doing so before being mortally wounded.  Having one target to concentrate on will make this hunting achievement possible for the hunters, but they will need to be in separate locations when firing their arrows to keep at least 2 of them safe long enough to continue their attack.  Edge to 3 prehistoric hunters.

10) 10x prehistoric hunter armed with a bow and arrow, long spear (with steel spike) and fire. They have a good organization. vs Elasmotherium (6t): The Elasmotherium is a bit heavier than the Megatherium, and offers a different type of challenge for the hunters.  It is a lot more mobile, but not as well-protected.  It can charge and easily crush or gore (with its sword-like horn) the hunters, so they will need to attack with the arrows from a safe distance to start with.  Their spears, if accurately thrown, will be able to dispatch the Elasmotherium.  The fire may deter the huge mammal from approaching (although modern-day rhinos have been known to charge at a fire), but will probably run away once it gets hit by arrows.  It will take time & persistence (and a lot of arrows), but the hunters should prevail more times than not.  Edge to 10 prehistoric hunters.


1) Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs Apatosaurus (30t): The Songhua river mammoth is now believed to actually be a Steppe mammoth, and didn't likely reach the sizes originally assigned to it.  The Songhua river mammoth was a resembled an elephant, but was much larger & had longer tusks (and smaller ears).  Apatosaurus (formerly & famously referred to as Brontosaurus at one time) probably defended itself on occasion against attacking theropods (like Allosaurus & Torvosaurus).  A realistic encounter involving a mammoth and an Apatosaurus would likely be peaceful & uneventful, but an actual battle would be a tusks vs tail affair.  The mammoth would have an easier time using its weapons against the sauropod than the other way around, but the larger size of the reptile would give it protection against many of the mammal's charges.  The mammoth's curved tusks weren't ideal for goring, but the impact of them would have likely driven the Apatosaurus away.  However, if the Apatosaurus was determined to stand its ground, it would have the size & strength to push the smaller animal around.  Edge to Apatosaurus.

2) 2x Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs Argentinosaurus (95t): Argentinosaurus was likely docile by nature, and 2 Songhua river mammoths could have probably driven it away with an aggressive assault.  However, if the huge dinosaur stood its ground, it would easily repel the 2 mammals with the movement of its heavy body or the swinging of its tail.  For an idea of the size difference, imagine 2 bison attacking an African elephant.  The sauropod is simply too big to be overcome by the mammoths.  Argentinosaurus wins.

3) Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs 10 x 500 kg Smilodon populator: Smilodons likely didn't hunt in groups, and organization would have been an issue here.  One of these great cats will need to sink its "fangs" (upper canines) into a vulnerable area (like a soft place on the neck) of the mammoth to have success, and the violent resistance of this massive creature will make this very difficult.  From a size perspective, this would be like 10 lionesses attacking a very large African elephant.  The Smilodons' chances will be poor unless the mammoth is old, unhealthy, injured, or otherwise encumbered.  Songhua river mammoth wins.

4) Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs 15x 400kg cave lion: The cave lions would need to deliver a finishing throat bite for the greatest success, but the difficulty level would be very high against a mammoth of this size.  From a size perspective, this would be like 15 jaguars attacking an African elephant.  The cave lions aren't without hope, but they won't be able to finish a healthy 18-ton mammoth on most occasions.  Songhua river mammoth wins.

5) Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs 2x Daspletosaurus (9m length 3.5t weight):  The Songhua river mammoth will be taller at the shoulder than the top of the head of either Daspletosaurus (if the theropods raise up).  Many theropods are capable of subduing larger animals (namely sauropods) and some may have hunted in groups.  The 2 Daspletosauruses could attack from different sides with their large jaws & sharp teeth, but the enormous mammoth would be able to drive into its attackers with its tusks & body weight to great effect (assuming it didn't get intimidated and run).  The theropods have a chance if the mammoth panics (mammoths didn't deal with predators of this size), but will have little success if the mammoth decides to stand its ground & actively resist.  Songhua river mammoth wins.

6) Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs 4x 1400kg Ceratosaurus: Each Ceratosaurus, when standing upright, will only be about 70% of the Songhua river mammoth's height.  The Ceratosaurus has a big bite with sharp, shearing teeth, but 4 of them will find it difficult to significantly wound this huge mammoth before getting knocked over, crushed, or struck with tusks.  Songhua river mammoth wins.

7) Songhua River Mammoth (18t) vs 8x 600kg Utahraptor: The Songhua river mammoth will weigh almost 3 1/2 times more than all 8 Utahraptors combined, but it will be in trouble.  The agile Utahraptor is well-armed with a decent bite, grabbing front claws, kicking/slashing back claws, and likely worked well as a group when attacking.  The Utahraptors' ability to leap upon the mammoth, secure their positions with their front claws, and attack with bites & slashing kicks from relative safety gives them a solid advantage.  The tough hide of the mammoth will take some time to breach, but the huge mammal won't have an effective way to repel the theropods clinging to it unless any get close to its head (trunk & tusks) or feet (crushing threat).  It will take a long time, but if the Utahraptors are determined, they will have the tools to eventually overcome the huge pachyderm.  8 Utahraptors win.


The scale power . 1-100 (all maximum size)

* not sure if you wanting me to rank them based on physical power or how formidable in combat, but I will do my best to create a decent scale (approximate) based on physical power.  I will distribute the animals in the best way to reflect any animal at 0 having no power and any animal at 100 being the most powerful on the list.  This means that an animal at 100 is not necessarily going to be twice as strong as an animal at 50 just because 50 x 2 + 100. *

Megatherium: 18

Songhua River Mammoth: 36

Triceratops: 28

T-rex: 24

Daspletosaurus: 11

Ceratosaurus: 3

Indian elephant: 19

hippo: 12

white rhinoceros: 14

Arcthotherium angustidens: 8

Elasmotherium: 20

Apatosaurus: 50

Argentinosaurus: 100

Barosaurus: 40

Brachiosaurus: 70


Q: What do you think caused the extinction of Quaternary megafauna?
A: I tend to agree with you.  The climate change (which caused, among other things, many areas to dry out) was simply too radical for many of the incumbent species to properly adjust.  There was some effect by the spread of humans (that hunted many of these animals), but it was likely minimal compared to the changes of the climate.  Some species managed to survive the changes, but their numbers were reduced, and they eventually succumbed to extinction (possibly to disease or human influence).  I'm not sure why some species survived while others didn't, and there are various theories regarding this.  Modern humans have a much greater effect on the reduction of various animals than they did before (due to deforestation, hunting, poaching, etc.) which is a trend I hope somehow can be reversed.


Best regards.  

Interspecies Conflict

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Questions regarding animal conflicts within realistic or unrealistic settings are welcome; my strength lies in medium-to-large species. Small animals (including birds of prey), prehistoric animals, sea creatures, and domestic dog breeds are usually within my scope, but to a lesser degree. I can't confidently answer hypothetical questions about human vs animal, arachnids, insects, or amphibians, but I am willing to field them nonetheless.

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From a young age, I have been interested in animals. Starting with the original Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom and World Book Encyclopedias, I have seen many animal shows and documentaries and have read multiple books on the subject. I have a solid understanding of the physiology of many animals and interspecies conflict in general.

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Associate degree in unrelated field; biology classes in college.

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