Italian Language/translation

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QUESTION: Dear Maria,

Would you please tell me if I have correctly translated the following sentence?    If not, would you please tell me if there is a more correct way to translate this sentence?

Per quanto concerne il dialogo tra Gabriella e Piero che immagino siano due amici e quindi si diano del tu (non del “Lei”), eccone la forma corretta:

As far as it concerns the dialogue between Gabriella and Piero that I suppose are two friends and therefore on a first name basis (not formal) here is the correct form:

I am having an especially difficult time understanding the use of “si diano del tu” in this sentence.  

Can you please tell me which form of the verb “dare” is being used in “si diano del tu”?    I am not able to determine if “dare” is being used with the “passive si” ,  or  if “darsi” is being used in this sentence.   If “darsi” is being used, can you please tell me  if  “darsi” is  being used as a reflexive verb with a reciprocal meaning?  Or, is “darsi” an intransitive pronominal verb in this sentence?   If “darsi” is an intransitive pronominal verb in this sentence - can you please tell me the meaning of this verb?

I am also wondering why the subjunctive form of “dare” has been used.  Is the subjunctive used to indicate the wish or hope that Gabriella and Piero have given each other the “tu” ?  Could this sentence have been written as “danno del tu” if you knew for a fact that Gabriella and Piero have given each other the “tu”?

Thank you so much for your help.  Also, I hope you had a nice vacation.

Sincerely,

Rich

ANSWER: Dear Rich,

Here is a more correct way to translate the sentence that you mention:

“As far as /As regards /In regard to/ With regard to /Concerning the dialogue between Gabriella and Piero that I suppose are two friends and therefore are  on  first-name terms, here is the correct form...”.

As you can see, the phrase  “Per quanto concerne  il dialogo.....” can be translated as “As far as the dialogue “,”As regards the dialogue “, “In regard to the dialogue “, “ With regard to the dialogue “,” Concerning the dialogue”, without any difference.

With regard to the Italian expression “darsi del tu” meaning that in Italian it is correct to use the 2nd.person singular TU (informal)-  instead of the 3rd.person singular LEI (formal use)- only  when we are familliar with somebody, while we need to use the LEI , i.e. the English  “impersonal you” to people we do not know well, please note that:

1)“darsi” (from “dare”) is  being used as an  intransitive pronominal verb with a reciprocal meaning as in “Diamoci del tu”, “Si davano del tu”, etc.

2) the subjunctive form of “dare” has been used in “ ... immagino siano due amici e quindi si diano del tu ..” simply because in Italian we use the subjunctive when a verb depends on another verb that expresses a supposition, not a  real fact.
So, the verb “immagino”(present indicative = “I suppose”) expresses just a supposition and therefore the verbs of the  subordinate  clause “siano” and “si diano “ must be in the present subjunctive respectively.

3)it is quite difficult to explain the Italian use of TU (colloquial ) or LEI (formal ) to  an English  or American English speaker  who uses the pronoun YOU  for  the second-person personal pronoun, both singular and plural, and both nominative and oblique case, without any difference between the formal and informal use.

Hope this can be helpful to you.

Best regards,
Maria
_________________________________________________________________________
P.S. La mia vacanza è stata molto interessante. L'ho trascorsa a Milano dove ho visitato la bellissima mostra:"Modigliani, Soutine e gli artisti maledetti" che si è appena chiusa a Palazzo Reale.




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Dear Maria,  

Thank you again for your help with this question.  I hope that you will not mind a follow-up question about the postscript.

Would you tell me if my translation is correct?

La mia vacanza è stata molto interessante. L'ho trascorsa a Milano dove ho visitato la bellissima mostra: "Modigliani, Soutine e gli artisti maledetti" che si è appena chiusa a Palazzo Reale.

My vacation has been very interesting.  I have spent it in Milan where I have visited the very beautiful exhibit "Modigliani, Soutine e gli artisti maledetti”  (Modigliani, Soutine and the cursed artists) that is  ________ ________ at Palazzo Reale.

I am having a very difficult time translating and understanding the use of “appena chiusa”.  Would you please help me to translate the words - “appena” and “chiusa”.    Also, would you also please tell me if I am correct in thinking that “che” is being used as the relative pronoun “that” and that “si” is being used as the “passive si”?

Thank you very much.

Sincerely,

Rich

Answer
Dear Rich,

your  translation is correct. As for the relative clause  “che si è appena chiusa ”,it translates as: ”that has just  been closed”.

Thus you should have written:” My vacation has been very interesting. I have spent it in Milan where I have visited the very beautiful exhibit "Modigliani, Soutine e gli artisti maledetti”  (Modigliani, Soutine and the cursed artists) that is  has just  been closed at Palazzo Reale”.

As you can see, the adverb “appena” is “just” and “che si è chiusa” in my sentence “La mia vacanza è stata molto interessante. L'ho trascorsa a Milano dove ho visitato la bellissima mostra: "Modigliani, Soutine e gli artisti maledetti" che si è appena chiusa a Palazzo Reale” is exactly a relative clause introduced by the relative pronoun “che” related to the noun “mostra”, while “si” is being used as the “passive si”, for “si è chiusa” stands for the passive past tense “è stata chiusa”.

Kind regards,

Maria  

Italian Language

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Maria

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Italian is my mother tongue and I'll be glad to answer any questions concerning Italian Language.

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I received my Ph.D.in Classics (summa cum laude) from Genova University (Italy).

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