About Daniel Selinski Expertise <<<>>>>If you want the word of Jehovah and his visible organization known world wide as Jehovah's Witnesses watered down don't question me,there are other fine brothere and sisters on this board ,Brother Rando,Brenton Hepburn,and Brenda Martin who are more gentle but will also not water down the WTBTS
here you will get the truth undiluted,unadulterated and Brutally Honest,Just know with me I'am against all the Churches of Christendom as well as all other religions and it's false God's .Let it be known from this day forward Daniel Selinski is a Jehovah Witness and willing not only to look for sheeplike ones door to door in the snow,rain and if need be a blizzard but will knock the horns off goatlike ones opposed to our religious beliefs.I'am a champion and have proved myself against some of the most prominent clergy the world over,my spiritual Daggers are sharp so avoid me if you are opposed because you will be spiritually SLAIN.
Experience In Jehovah's Witness organization since 1975,served as an ordained minister and regular pioneer
Education/Credentials High school grad,Attended College.
Question QUESTION: Hello Daniel, I just couldn't stay away yet! LOL....
Okay! -- You acknowledge, you knew where I was going with the part "is to come" RIGHT???
I'm having problem with your explanation: Christ is a representative of God. -- Exodus 3:2 clearly/directly reads, "Then Jehovah's Angel" so yes an Angel can represent God Almighty. -- But, Revelation 1:8 is much different, please read carefully, "I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga, says Jehovah God" see what I mean [I am, & says Jehovah God]. It doesn't says Jehovah's Angel like Exodus 3:2. It directly/clearly identifies Jehovah God!!! RIGHT???
Let me know!
ANSWER: (Revelation 1:8) . . .“I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.”
(Revelation 4:8) . . .Holy, holy, holy is Jehovah God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is coming.”
the expression “the One who is and who was and who is coming” clearly points to God
You use the word coming in reference to Jesus coming,the fact is Jesus never told his followers about a second coming so this expression wouldnt apply,
Lets examine what he told his followers,but first a background,the Jwes were under Roman rule and wanted to be restored under a theoracy
they knew the Christ was foretold to come and when he did he didn't restore the kingdom but was killed so they rejected Jesus and even today the republic of Israel reject Jesus and the NT,they say Jesus has not yet come.
Jesus disn't come to restore the earthly kingdom he told them this ,he said over and over his kingdom was heavenly New Jerusalem.
But they still asked him again in Acts:
(Acts 1:6) . . .When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?”
This coming the churches take from Matt
Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
They were asking again when would his kingdom take control just like in Acts notvwhen he was coming again a second time these will be no second coming,this is what they asked:
(Matthew 24:3) . . .While he was sitting upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples approached him privately, saying: “Tell us, When will these things be, and what will be the sign of your presence and of the conclusion of the system of things?”
presence not coming,so he is present now in kingdom power since 1914
and that is what they wanted to know not as the churches teach a second advent,Jesus told them just before he died this:
(John 14:19) . . .A little longer and the world will behold me no more,. . .
King James Version
Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more
He never would have said this if was was coming back here again,it didn't take 2 trips to take control if that was Gods plan he didn't need to come again he would have restored the kingdom 2,000 years ago
So again your use of coming still dont apply to Jesus
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
QUESTION: Excuse me??? -- Bro Daniel come on here! It's like your doing your best to be unreasonable!!!
Let just say I agree, Christ didn't tell his disciples of a second coming. So what!!! -- The Holy Scriptures[NWT] teaches Christ is coming again. -- What is the testimony of the Holy Scriptures? [The OT testified of a coming Messiah, and the NT testifies that he has come, went back to heaven and is coming back again]. Is this not a true/fair statement of the Holy Scriptures witness? Shouldn't this be our witness as Christians? I don't know why you thought tell me about the misunderstanding of the disciples and the thoughts of the non-believing Jews would be helpful. The Holy Scriptures clearly teaches a second coming of Christ -- The day of Jehovah!
Didn't the Apostle Paul teach in 1Thess 4:13-18; 5:1-2, the coming of Christ? Didn't Christ come once already and then went back to heaven?
How is it written in the Holy Scriptures:
"because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet" 1Thess 4:16 -- [hmmm... what does descend from heaven means?]
"For YOU yourselves know quite well that Jehovah’s day is coming exactly as a thief in the night" 1Thess 5:2 -- [hmmm....Jehovah's Day is coming, is this talking about the Father in heaven?]
These is the heart of our spiritual battle. Is Christ coming, is Jehovah coming, are both coming together but identified as two different deities, or is both the same called Jehovah?
Well, what is written in the Holy Scriptures? I nominate Revelation to best answer this question since Revelation give the most detail about the end of time and who's coming from heaven.
it is written:
"Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, and those who pierced him" Rev 1:7 [hmmm....He that is coming will be seen by those who pierced him, hmmm.... who was pierced?]
“I am the Al´pha and the O·me´ga,” says Jehovah God, “the One who is and who was and who is coming, the Almighty.” Rev 1:8 [hmmm.....who is speaking here, the Father? hmmm.... "the One who is coming, the Almighty" hmmm.... what is meant by the ONE? hmmm....has the Almighty been pierced?]
What is the verdict? According to the Holy Scriptures, Christ is he that is to come the Almighty God. Jehovah's Day is Christ second coming. It was Christ that was pierced not the Father. And only the Son is coming who called himself the Alpha and Omega in the name Jehovah. Jesus is coming in the name of Jehovah. Therefore Jesus is Jehovah, The Father and the Son are ONE.
Correction the churches of christendom teaches this not the bible.
(John 14:19) . . .A little longer and the world will behold me no more,. . .
Like I already mentioned he never would have made this ststement if he was coming back here again
>>>I don't know why you thought tell me about the misunderstanding of the disciples and the thoughts of the non-believing Jews would be helpful<<
I only mentioned this because you were using his coming as a reference to Jehovah so you need to understand he is not "coming" to the earth again.
>>>The Holy Scriptures clearly teaches a second coming of Christ -- The day of Jehovah>>>
The day of Jehovah has nothing to do with a second coming of Jesus as I will explain from scriptures,see the churches teach one thing and the bible another,the churches are false so they will teach falsehoods.
??Didn't the Apostle Paul teach in 1Thess 4:13-18; 5:1-2, the coming of Christ?
NO.
Didn't Christ come once already and then went back to heaven>>>>
Yes
Your text at 1Thess has nothing to do with a second coming this is a false teaching from the false churches.
Lets examine the text SEE THIS IS WHY WE GO DOOR TO DOOR YOU HAVE SEEN US OUT THERE,TO EXPOSE THE CHURCHES FALSE TEACHINGS
KJV:
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Where in the text is a second coming? the churches teach this is a rapture where people go to heaven.
When Paul mentioned this what subject was being discussed?
backtrack to verse 13:
“We would not have you ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are asleep
So he was talking about those who had died some members of the Christian congregation in Thessalonica had died. Paul encouraged the survivors to comfort one another with the resurrection hope.
So your text is about the dead living again not a rapture to heaven and a second coming.
The churches teach Jesus will come on a real cloud and be seen
Jesus foretold:
Luke 21:27 (King James Version)
27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
In no way does this statement or similar ones in other texts contradict what Jesus said as recorded at John 14:19.
John 14:19) . . .A little longer and the world will behold me no more,.
Why because going back again to Mount Sinai it says :
God ‘came to the people in a thick cloud
(Exodus 19:9) . . .Look! I am coming to you in a dark cloud. . .
As you already learned God was not on a mountain here on earth the earth can't hold God,but yet it said he was there.
So God was invisibly present; the people of Israel saw visible evidence of his presence, but none of them actually saw God with their eyes. So, too, when Jesus said that he would come “in a cloud,” he meant that he would be invisible to human eyes but that humans would be aware of his presence and he gave the signs that he was present in kingdom power which was 1914.
>>>Jehovah's Day is coming, is this talking about the Father in heaven?]
These is the heart of our spiritual battle. Is Christ coming, is Jehovah coming, are both coming together but identified as two different deities, or is both the same called Jehovah?>>>
You have to understand what Jehovah's day is ,its destruction not a rapture,the churches have a second coming as a blessed day of a wonderful rapture to heaven and the same time as Jehovahs day.
As I show scriptures on Jehovah's day see if you get the thought of somthing to look forward to as a wonderful rapture to heaven.
In the same book Thess we are told this;
(2 Thessalonians 1:7-9) . . .but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction. . .
No mention of a rapture but more of a warning,so how many times does Jesus come ,if we believe the churches and your text he descend from heaven with a shout and raptures people to heaven which would be a second coming,here he brings death to people who do not obey the good news that only we preach,so which coming is it ? I have other verses when he comes;
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
(Matthew 24:36-42) . . .Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 40 Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned; 41 two women will be grinding at the hand mill: one will be taken along and the other be abandoned. 42 Keep on the watch, therefore, because YOU do not know on what day YOUR Lord is coming.
(Matthew 24:44) . . .On this account YOU too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that YOU do not think to be it, the Son of man is coming.
So the question is how many times does he come ,and when he does come what will he do, rapture people to heaven or bring destruction.
You can't find in any of these verses where he raptures people to heaven which is the basics of a second coming the churches teach.
They dont tell you this is a warning but somthing to be longed for a blessed rapture,but when you really look at this Jesus is giving a warning of Jehovah's Day as you mentioned ,so a second coming has nothing to do with Jehovahs day where he destroys this present evil world of mankind.
As proof Jesus comes only one time he said this ;
.But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
the correct translation is not coming but:
(Matthew 24:37) . . .For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be.. . .
The reason the GK text didn't use coming is Jesus compared his time to the days of Noah,it wouldn't make sense if this time was a sudden coming as in one day and a quick departure or rapture to compare it with Noah's days which was over 120 years,you see our point?
He wouldn't compare a one day event with 120 years as he did here comparing his coming,so the word was presence as before,so since 1914 he has been present in kingdom power.
So this covers a long time as in Noahs day,and as I mentioned he comes to bring destruction,so your text as proof of his coming and decending is not a second coming but talking about the hope of the dead living again.
You mentioned somthing else as proof:
Rev 1:7
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him:
Ltes understand he will not be visible :
(1 Timothy 6:15-16) . . .only Potentate will show in its own appointed times, [he] the King of those who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, 16 the one alone having immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see. . .
So your text which is in symbols in Rev must mean somthing else,plus the fact those who pierced Jesus are dead so that would mean he will bring these back from the flams of hell as the false churches teach just to view his coming,does that make sense to you? then they are sent back to burn forever,makes no sense.
So your text means by “clouds” is his invisible presense just like a cloud by day went ahead of Israel which was a visible sign of his presence but they could not see him,and as I mentioned the Roman soldiers did this at the time of Jesus’ execution. But they have long been dead. So this must refer to people who similarly mistreat, or ‘pierce,’ Christ’s true followers today.
Here is one more coming:
(Matthew 25:31-33) . . .When the Son of man arrives in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit down on his glorious throne. 32 And all the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 And he will put the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on his left.
See how many times does he Jesus comes,again this says nothing about a rapture,you cant find a scripture about a second coming
Then you said:
"Therefore Jesus is Jehovah, The Father and the Son are ONE."
(John 10:30) . . .I and the Father are one. . .
You envoke this to show Jesus is Jehovah?
Well you are dealing Willie with a bible student.
If he was saying he and Jehovah are the same person then we must conclude his folowers are the same one person also because later in the same context he said;
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:
So we are not the same person so when he said he and the father are one NWT translate:
(John 17:20-21) . . .I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you,. . .
Or, “at unity.” Lit., “one (thing).” Gr., hen, neuter, to show oneness in cooperation.
(John 17:20-21) . . .I make request, not concerning these only, but also concerning those putting faith in me through their word; 21 in order that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you,. . .
As proof they are the the same he said;
(John 14:28) . . .that I am going my way to the Father, because the Father is greater than I am.
