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About Brenton Hepburn
Expertise
I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I can answer questions on the reliability of the NWT, the so called mind control problems, so called prophecies, and general practices and history of Jehovah’s Witnesses.....
>>>>WARNING<<<<<<
....Please be aware that there are at least ... 3 .... people here who ARE NOT practicing JWs and, (at other times there have been as many as 5.) These ones will, at times, appear to have an agenda against JWs., and will often give answers that are not correct in regard to JW teachings and practices. If you are after a answer from one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, please read some of the answers that the various experts have published before choosing someone. If you want to ask them a question that is fine, but if you want a balancing view after asking one of the NON JWs, ask a JW the same question

Experience
I have been a publisher since 1964. When I first went on the internet I found a lot of negative information dealing with Jehovah’s Witnesses covering prophecy, mind control and what many said was a very bad translation of the Bible known as the NWT. It shook my faith. After may hours researching these topics I could see why some felt that way, but, I was also able to explain why there were these misleading views. I can now set matters straight for anyone that has negative information about Jehovah’s Witness to show them that such information is at best misleading and at worst dangerous lies.

Education/Credentials
I have been a student of the Bible for many years, am trying to teach myself Biblical Greek. Was a public tax accountant for many yrars untill SEP 2009 when I gave it up.

You are here: Experts > Religion/Spirituality > Christianity - Restorationism > Jehovah`s Witness > thank you, re: knowing God's mind

Jehovah`s Witness - thank you, re: knowing God's mind

Expert: Brenton Hepburn - 10/28/2009

Question
Brenton,

  I regret that this format does not really allow us to spend as much time in discussion as I’d like. I want to thank you for the extra time you’ve spent on it.

“Many individuals started to break away from the general teachings of “orthodox religion”.
  Apostates and heretics also “break away from the general teachings of orthodox religion”. Breaking away is not the evidence of having discovered the Truth.

“These ones did not have full knowledge but a partial knowledge…”
  “Now we see in a mirror dimly” is how Paul put it. I understand you sentiment and agree to a point. Although not ALL things are revealed to us… The word of God “equips us for ‘every’ good work”.

“…including no hellfire, no trinity, paradise restored on earth,…
  None of these are unique to JW’s. These doctrines are found all over the world.

“…preaching of the good news of Gods Kingdom. “
  This too, is not unique to JW’s. The difference is how “God’s Kingdom” is defined.

(JWs do not claim to have FULL Knowledge yet either of ALL of the hidden treasures of the Bible)
  Agreed. But we, who recognized the Bible as inspired by God, should be holding that knowledge up to the Bible to see if it is accurate knowledge.

“Russell and his friends drew on past teachings of such ones as well as on what they read.
One of the first things they encountered was the explanation of the gospel message.
They understood it to be referring to the reestablishment of “paradise” here on earth under Gods Kingdom.
This idea was not new, as people such as Sir Isaac Newton believed it.”

  This is the marrow of my Question.
  What if Russell and his friends drew on past apostate heretical teachings, encountering a false explanation of the Gospel and misunderstanding “Paradise”?
  How would they know? Because it is not ‘orthodox’?

“To discern what is true and what is not we must first listen to a teacher and then do our own research and study on the matter, along with prayer.”
Hmmm. I think I would change your word ordering here and say, “First read the Bible and pray for understanding. If what we hear from a teacher or research and study on the matter disagrees with that, then I would suspect the teaching and the study.

Example.
  How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?” (Romans 10:14)
  Paul is referring to the Gentiles who did not have the Scriptures.

  Such was not the case for Timothy,
  “From childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 2 Tim 3:15…

  How did Timothy come to KNOW the SACRED WRITINGS?
  "For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is READ in the synagogues every Sabbath." (Acts 15:21)

  Here is my point:
  Every single instance in the Bible where people are led away into apostasy, always, without exception, it was by FALSE TEACHING not FALSE READING.
  Hence my original question: “How can we know the mind of God in order to KNOW spiritual things?”

“I first learnt what the Bible taught form the WTBTS.   In the 1990’s I had a crises of conscience as I discovered information about them on the internet.
So, now, personally, I do not take anything the WTBTS says at face value. I look for my self.
I use about 20 different English Bibles, several commentaries, and Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries. (All on my computer) along with several interlinear Bibles.
By doing so I learnt for myself that there was no trinity, hell, immortal soul, and all the other pagan things that Christendom use.”

That must have been hard for you. For myself, I learned what the Bible taught from a preacher. To make a long story short, I began to read the Bible for myself. Sure enough there were things I was taught that I discovered had holes in it. Because the preacher was wrong about things did not make his teachings apostate. Apollos was ‘mighty in the Scriptures’, but he was only acquainted with the baptism of John. Priscilla and Aquila did not castigate him as an apostate… they corrected him. Acts 18:24-26

We still need to be taught and reminded as to what is required for a good relationship with God.
This was true of the first century congregations as it is today.
When we read through many of the letters Paul wrote we see the correction that was needed back then.
Many individuals went away from what they were taught and had to be shown the mistakes they made.
Some were even expelled from the congregations for teaching things contrary to what was accepted.

  Exactly! Apostasy came by way of Teaching NOT Reading.

  I don’t expect a response to this letter. I really do appreciate the time you’ve already spent. I look forward to other discussions on your beliefs and what the Bible teaches.

Scott

Answer
Hello Scott

Thank you for your follow up. I do appreciate the interaction with people, especially those that asked sensible and polite questions.

If you have read any of my recent posts to others you will be aware that I have been very busy with family matters and catching up with allexpert questions has not been a priority.

May I please make some comments on your information

Scott
Apostates and heretics also “break away from the general teachings of orthodox religion”. Breaking away is not the evidence of having discovered the Truth.

Brenton
Yes you are correct. Why do people break away? Many reasons I am sure. Sometimes it is just pride. They can nor get what they want from an organization so start up one where they can get what they want (Henry the 8th) some for religious differences (Luther) and I am sure there are many more examples. The reason why C T Russell and others of his time and preceding them saw things in what was being taught that they did not agree with or could not see any Biblical reason for the teaching. And yes he was not always correct as JWs now are not always correct in finer points

Scot
“…including no hellfire, no trinity, paradise restored on earth,…
None of these are unique to JW’s. These doctrines are found all over the world.

Brenton
I agree these are not unique to JWs they have been truths that have been seen through the centuries by different ones. Remember we believe that the truth (wheat, righteous one of Jesus parable) was there but veiled by the very close looking weed that was sown along side. You see Jesus said that the look would be very similar. In the information I sent regarding the “Tares” or Darnell” they would only be recognized at the harvest time.

Imagine a field of wheat. As you look at it you can easily distinguish weeds, because the weeds look completely different. There is no problem in getting rid of the weed in the early stage or late stage. The difference is very discernable

Now this poisons weed called darnel still looked like wheat even at harvest. It took skilled had harvesting to go through the field to make sure that this other wheat look alike did not get mixed with the pure wheat. The only difference is that the wheat stood straight up and the darnel bent over. Does that not suggest that the difference between what is acceptable to the sower (Jesus) and what is not is small

Scott
Every single instance in the Bible where people are led away into apostasy, always, without exception, it was by FALSE TEACHING not FALSE READING.
Hence my original question: “How can we know the mind of God in order to KNOW spiritual things?”

Brenton
When Martin Luther, John Calvin, William Tyndale, Michael Servetus and all the other brave individuals of time gone by that tried to speak out against the Catholic Church, they were viewed as apostates. Russell, and the different ones he learnt from, were viewed as being apostate by the them main-stream religions that had emerged from men previously thought to be apostate durin ghte reformation.

How did all these mens views come about? First, by Reading and studying the Bible. They then had the courage to teach others what they had learnt. In may cases this lead to great persecution ans at times death. Most of the religious wittings of Sir Issac Newton were published after his natural death for his own safety sake.

Even Jesus was viewed as apostate by the religious leaders of his time, and as the leader of a sect.

This term in Greek (a·po·sta·si′a) comes from the verb a·phi′ste·mi, literally meaning “stand away from.” The noun has the sense of “desertion, abandonment or rebellion.” In classical Greek the noun was used to refer to political defection, and the verb is evidently employed in this sense at Acts 5:37, concerning Judas the Galilean who “drew off” (a·pe′ste·se, form of a·phi′ste·mi) followers

Here are some texts that discuss that there were those that started to stand away from, desert, abandon and even rebel against what was taught by the Christian congregation in the first century. I think that they speak for them selves. (Sorry these are all from the NWT. The hard drive that had all my other Bibles on it has died)

(1 Timothy 1:18-20) 18 This mandate I commit to you, child, Timothy, in accord with the predictions that led directly on to you, that by these you may go on waging the fine warfare; 19 holding faith and a good conscience, which some have thrust aside and have experienced shipwreck concerning [their] faith. 20 Hymenaeus and Alexander belong to these, and I have handed them over to Satan that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme.

(1 Timothy 4:1-3) 4 However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, 2 by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; 3 forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created to be partaken of with thanksgiving by those who have faith and accurately know the truth. . .

(2 Peter 2:1) 1 However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among YOU. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. . .

(2 Timothy 2:16-19) 16 But shun empty speeches that violate what is holy; for they will advance to more and more ungodliness, 17 and their word will spread like gangrene. Hymenaeus and Philetus are of that number. 18 These very [men] have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred; and they are subverting the faith of some. 19 For all that, the solid foundation of God stays standing, having this seal: “Jehovah knows those who belong to him,” and: “Let everyone naming the name of Jehovah renounce unrighteousness.”

(2 Peter 2:14-22) . . .. 15 Abandoning the straight path, they have been misled. They have followed the path of Balaam, [the son] of Beor, who loved the reward of wrongdoing, 16 but got a reproof for his own violation of what was right. A voiceless beast of burden, making utterance with the voice of a man, hindered the prophet’s mad course. 17 These are fountains without water, and mists driven by a violent storm, and for them the blackness of darkness has been reserved. 18 For they utter swelling expressions of no profit, and by the desires of the flesh and by loose habits they entice those who are just escaping from people who conduct themselves in error. 19 While they are promising them freedom, they themselves are existing as slaves of corruption. For whoever is overcome by another is enslaved by this one. 20 Certainly if, after having escaped from the defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they get involved again with these very things and are overcome, the final conditions have become worse for them than the first. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have accurately known the path of righteousness than after knowing it accurately to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 The saying of the true proverb has happened to them: “The dog has returned to its own vomit, and the sow that was bathed to rolling in the mire.”

Many were mislead by false teachers, empty speeches that arose from with in the congregation.

Just like the men of the reformation, how were individuals to know what was the Mind of God? The general teachings of the congregation or the teachings of those that had different things to so. That is something the first century Christians had to decide as we do today. The first century Christians were in a better place because they had men that actually walked with Christ. We do not.

We need to keep studying as is seen in Acts 17:11” 11 Now the latter were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.” And also we need to recognize the words of 2 Timothy 3:16-17 “16 All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.”

Scott
BH
“Russell and his friends drew on past teachings of such ones as well as on what they read.
One of the first things they encountered was the explanation of the gospel message.
They understood it to be referring to the reestablishment of “paradise” here on earth under Gods Kingdom.
This idea was not new, as people such as Sir Isaac Newton believed it.”

S
This is the marrow of my Question.
What if Russell and his friends drew on past apostate heretical teachings, encountering a false explanation of the Gospel and misunderstanding “Paradise”?
How would they know? Because it is not ‘orthodox’?

Brenton
I understand what you are asking. The only way I know was to closely compare the various teachings relating to the kingdom and weight up the evidence. There are texts that taken on their own can seem to support different points of view. There is a need to put all the texts into context of the whole Bible by looking at what the Bible says was Gods purpose doe establishing the earth and realizing that it is impossible for God to lie. So when looking at the various ideas examining what seems to be being said we have to see if the text can be read in another way and a lot of texts can have different explanations depending on the point of view we look at them from, and looking for text that can not be given alternative explanations and comparing that with the overall theme of the Bible.

I would love to go through all the reasonings behind the understanding of a regained earthly paradise as the effect of Gods Kingdom and the message of Jesus

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