Jehovah`s Witness/The dilemma of John 1:1

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Derrick wrote at 2011-03-06 12:51:07
"When I was in servicing I had a discussion with a Trinitarian and he started with John 1:1 to proof that Jesus is one of the three gods that forms the ONE Trinity GOD."



I am amazed that, with all the clear and concise explanations of this Biblical teaching, you people still cannot get it right.  



The Trinity is NOT 3 "gods"!  Goodness!  This has been shown over and over and over, yet you all seem to just have this mental block.  And unfortunately, every argument you guys have against the Trinity, is built on this false "straw man" argument.  So the arguments are as worthless as the false idea you are arguing against.



John 1:1 is easy, guys.  No 4-in-1, as Pedrosa says.  And it does NOT say that the Word HAD a beginning....it says in the beginning, the Word WAS...He was already in existence.  Talk about Scripture twisting.  The Word Himself possesses the nature of God, and the Word was WITH God....the Father, and the Spirit.  Its easy.



To say that the Word was WITH God, and also God Himself, proves beyond all doubt that the ONE God is a plurality of Persons.  And the next 2 verses, far from saying the Word HAD a beginning as the expert claims, shows the Word to have created ALL things.  "Without Him was not ANYTHING made that was made".



That's pretty clear to me that the Word, Who was WITH God, and Who WAS God, is also the Creator of all things.  And I don't have to re-translate the verse to prove my point.


Derrick wrote at 2011-03-06 12:57:44
"Very VERY few people leave Jehovahs organization over disagreements with doctrine (the most likely one being blood transfusions- and EVEN THEN they are usually angry because they feel their loved one would have been "saved" by blood... when in truth, any doctor will tell you honestly, a blood transfusion is NO guarantee of life."



This is clever wording, but also deceptive.  Of COURSE its not a guarantee.  Nothing is guaranteed.  But the odds are better in many cases, and a person who has lost a loved one due to this false WT teaching will always feel the guilt of knowing that there was a CHANCE, and that they did not do everything they could have to save their loved one.  All in the name of Jehovah God, and Jehovah God didn't even require this.



But is it guaranteed?  Of course not.  Nobody said it was.  When I was diagnosed with stage IV cancer back in 1998, chemotherapy and a stem cell transplant were my options.  There was NO guarantee.  But did that mean that we wouldn't try it, because it wasn't guaranteed?  Did I refrain from chemo because there were risks?  This is so ridiculous!  



There WAS a guarantee, however....If I DIDN'T do the treatments, I would have died.  That was guaranteed.  So I took chemo, despite there being "no guarantees", and despite the "risks".  And 13 years later, I am healthier than I have ever been.



I hope and pray people will not sacrifice their own life, or the life of their child, for some ridiculous argument like "blood is no guarantee", or blood "has risks".  Of course it does...getting in your car and going to the store has risks.



I can't believe thinking adults actually far for reasoning like that.  


BeReasonable wrote at 2011-03-15 03:22:08
Mr. Derrick,



I was not being clever in my wording, I was being direct in responding to the point:



Blood Transfusions are not an option for those who wish to do what the bible says and respect the Giver of Life, Jehovah God.

Acts 15:28,29

You have the choice to believe whatever you would like and serve whatever "God" you so choose.



You have however been deceptive in your commenting on my response.





***((There WAS a guarantee, however....If I DIDN'T do the treatments, I would have died.  That was guaranteed.  So I took chemo, despite there being "no guarantees", and despite the "risks".  And 13 years later, I am healthier than I have ever been.))

-- You ought to know very well that Jehovah's Witnesses accept chemotherapy and various other treatments in aiding them to recover from illnesses, but of course your comparison was meant to point out how "unreasonable we are." The fact of the matter is just as You made a choice (I assume by your writing) between

the stem cell and the chemo, Jehovah's true servants, always make the choice to RESPECT and honor Jehovah's command, and we do not accept blood transfusions.



I said:

"Very VERY few people leave Jehovahs organization over disagreements with doctrine (the most likely one being blood transfusions- and EVEN THEN they are usually angry because they feel their loved one would have been "saved" by blood... when in truth, any doctor will tell you honestly, a blood transfusion is NO guarantee of life."



My point was clear- A person does not loose their loved one because they did not take blood. Taking blood is NOT a life-saver. However I did not say that it is not an option for treatment, I was pointing out exactly what you are mentioning, in your reasoning on cancer treatments. It comes with a risk/problems, like ANY other treatment does.

However

The MOST important problem a blood transfusion comes with for Jehovah's true servants, is that it breaks HIS LAW. The bible is clear on "abstaining from blood." The bible is even clearer on Gods view of Blood:



(Genesis 9:4) Only flesh with its soul—its blood—YOU must not eat.

(Leviticus 3:17)

(Leviticus 7:26)

(Leviticus 17:10)

(Deuteronomy 12:16)

(Deuteronomy 12:23)

(1 Samuel 14:32)



Many just dont wish to obey that commandment, or respect the principles on Jehovahs view of Blood. This is because many are serving *themselves* and are lovers of pleasure (this life and system) rather than lovers of God.

The same way they do not obey the commandment to abstain from violence and to NOT harm their fellowman,

ie going to war with so-called fellow-Christians and sending their children off to wars against to KILL their fellow-man. Jesus was MORE than clear when he said we ought not to do that, yet we hear no issue being made of this violation of commandment?? Despite the fact that sending/sacrificing youth to war causes more deaths than the various issues that can be treated by blood transfusions are attributed??





***I hope and pray people will not sacrifice their own life, or the life of their child, for some ridiculous argument like "blood is no guarantee", or blood "has risks".  Of course it does...getting in your car and going to the store has risks.



--- As I said above, I do not hear this argument being made regarding the various people who sacrifice their lives and worse yet TAKE the life of others in WAR, yet that carries far greater problems in this world and has solved far less.

Our abstaining from blood, has opened the way for FAR-BETTER treatments of patients in need of emergency care, hospital/stay care, and recovery from illnesses, that do not require blood and the blood-born risks that come with it.

Although this was not the intention of our abstaining from blood, it is a benefit that comes from standing up for Jehovahs commandments.



I hope more people will not continue to suffer the various detrimental consequences of TAKING blood transfusions, when there are many different options now available to them, that do not carry the risks and problems associated with displeasing Jehovah by disobeying him.


keith wrote at 2015-03-19 18:41:56
You are absolutely incorrect when you tell Pedrosa that nearly all branches of Christianity (Catholics, Othodox, Protestants, etc.) hold to different definitions of the Trinity.  The vast majority of denominations hold to the IDENTICAL definition.  You are simply wrong on your facts here.  


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Being an expert and being qualified to answer are not always one and the same- as such I can answer your questions regarding the bibles teachings on any particular manner. **I will do this relying on prior knowledge like anyone else, but also with a willingness to do research into the matter with a goal of sighting as many sources as are available in answering and showing the reasonableness of such. In all circumstances and for all questions, the Bible is its own Interpreter.** This has never proven to be false in the past and as a book that claims inspriration from the Only True God, it shall never be proven false. I fully support, acknowledge and cooperative with *The Faithful Steward/The Faithful and Discreet Slave and Its Governing Body* of Jehovah’s Witnesses. As a note to all questioneers - if your goal is to question me into doubting my faith or our organization, then perhaps the answer you receive may not be as pleasing, for I have seen time and time again, that when peoples motive is to ask a question in order to prove something is not simply wrong with the faithful and discreet slave, but that there should be None, regardless of how solid/complete/concrete and well-researched the answers are - the questioners are dissatisfied because they did not wish to be given an answer in first place- but rather to inspire doubt. Please be weary of such. and please do not waste my time. I WILL call it as I see it.

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An active Jehovahs Witness for eight (8) years (associated for much of my life) and via volunteering and spending significant time in my ministry, conducting bible studies and answering questions of my neighbors, I am continuously reinforcing myself on Peters words: “Always ready to make a defense before everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you, but doing do together with a mild temper and deep respect.”—1 Pet. 3:15. That coupled with a sincere desire to see others benefit from the words of the only true God, which are capable of "bringing back the soul" (Psalms 19:7) And Like our God Jehovah, who "is patient with you because he does not desire any to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.” (2 PETER 3:9.) I make it my goal to fit my answers to the questions and the individual. I have a regular secular job like anyone else, and this is a service I am volunteering for, as I do with my physical door-to-door and other ministries, please consider this in the timeliness of my responses.

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I have had training as a minister in the "Pioneer Service School" for Jehovahs Witnesses, but in truth, I imitate the way of the Bereans and the Apostles of Christ, who through study of the scriptures and intense examination, proving "that these things were so." (Acts 17:11) The men in Jesus day were "unlettered and ordinary." To claim to be some exceptionally trained person in this area, would be disengenuous at best, but purely hubris. I will say that I have certain qualifications as it comes to our organization as Jehovahs Witnesses. ALL dedicated and baptized, in good standing Jehovah's Witnesses are qualified bible instructors.

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