Jehovah`s Witness/Character Attacks, and John 2:19...The Verse they STILL can't answer
I find it interesting that we have a whole handful of JWs right now, who are crying on each other’s shoulders, and trying to assure themselves, each other, and the rest of the reading audience, that they are “crushing” mean ole’ Derrick Holland for believing that Jesus rose in a fleshly body like the Bible teaches He did. Actually, the amount of “crushing” they are doing, amounts to throwing peanuts at a brick wall. But yet, that is what they are constantly telling themselves, and anyone who will listen…That they have “crushed” and “dissected” a very powerful and plain statement from the words of Jesus Himself, which they would rather argue with than just believe.
But here’s the thing….NOBODY has still given a solid answer to the question. Every pitiful attempt these people (DW, Rando, Grunbaum, the JW lady, and now Bill) have made, is based on false statements, lies, distortions, and a failure to understand the meaning of 2 basic words…”this”, and “it”.
I cannot believe there are 7 million plus people on this earth, that do not know the meaning of “this” and “it”. Perhaps we should define these 2 very difficult words.
THIS- “Used to identify a specific person or thing close at hand or being indicated or experienced: "don't listen to this guy"….
“used to indicate a person, thing, idea, state, event, time, remark, etc., as present, near, just mentioned or pointed out, supposed to be understood, or by way of emphasis”
IT- “Used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified”
Did you catch that, JWs? "IT" means “a thing previously mentioned….“ Seems to fit quite nicely with John 2:19.
Well, that is simple enough. The “THIS” and the “IT” of John 2:19, go together. The “IT” that would be raised in 3 days, is the “THIS” that would be put to death. Real simple, for anyone willing to simply listen to Jesus.
Now, Rando tries to swoop down and save the day, by telling us in effect, that believing these words of Jesus literally (meaning, that Christ said what He meant), amounts to fleshly and wicked thinking, while so-called “spiritual” thinking would show us that Christ actually did NOT mean what He said, but something entirely the opposite.
No, actually, it just means that Christ was trying to make the simple point about His body resurrecting again, and said it in a way that could be understood by anyone reading the Scriptures, and seeking to know the truth about the resurrection.
Now, to be honest, just sitting back and watching the fireworks on this board as of late, and the personal attacks on me for re-posting an article on the resurrection of Christ, sort of makes me want to go pop some popcorn and watch the show. These guys constantly make some of the most far-out and vain attempts to answer this troubling verse, yet they keep falling over themselves in their attempts.
They apparently find strength in numbers, by appealing to how many times, and by how many people, they think have “crushed” the Scriptural argument. Actually, none of you have, despite all the "tag-teaming". And AGAIN….I will be more than happy to enter into a civil, friendly discussion with ANY of you, who wish to take these points one-by-one. Now, you can either put up, or you can keep doing like one questioner pointed out a few weeks ago…acting like little girls behind the bleachers. I have seen enough now from these posts of yours, to know that there is no Scriptural refutation you can offer to that point about Jesus’ saying “this” and “it”. And no, DW, that is not my only argument…There are plenty more. But it sure is a good one, as evidenced by the comments that you have made about it, in a feeble attempt to explain it away. Never seem someone so determined to twist Scripture, and with so little understanding of 2 simple words.
Now, another tactic DW thinks he has become the master of, is this notion of falsely accusing me of “character attacks”. Now, he obviously never lists a character attack that I have made on anyone…He merely asserts it, and the JWs reading the forum fall all over themselves in agreement, but none of them ever actually show a character attack.
NOW, they themselves DO employ character attacks, however. This is their hypocrisy at work. All any person reading this board has to do, is to read the recent posts and see who are the ones “weeping and gnashing their teeth”, and making character attacks.
For example, DW told this lie just the other day, in a reply to me. I had mentioned that the JW lady who writes him as of late, makes some very off-the-deep-end statements, and perhaps needs psychiatric help. Well, DW apparently doesn‘t understand that a person‘s mental health, does not necessarily reflect on their character, so he calls that a “character attack“ He wrote…
DW: “So your attack on her character doesn't work. She knows more about scripture than you will ever know!!”
Now, of course there was no attack on her character….only her mental stability, because of her making some of the ridiculous statements she has made (I will list the best of those in a moment, and we will look at some of the statements that DW thinks are “great points”.)
But after lying, and claiming I attacked her character, DW proceeds to write just 2 sentences later….
“Keep weeping and gnashing your teeth in the darkness outside, false prophet!!”
Hmmm…Which is the character attack….saying someone needs mental help, or calling them a false prophet?
But wait…Don’t the JWs claim that a person CANNOT be a false prophet, unless they claim to be inspired in their utterances? Don’t the Witnesses say that a person is not a false prophet, as long as they have at some point claimed they don’t have the gift of prophecy?
Well, by that standard, DW is being hypocritical in his application of the term “false prophet”.
Then, in his answer to the guy who calls himself Bill, DW writes the following about me…
“he just lives in absolute cuckoo land a complete and utter world of make believe!!”
So, we see that if I question the mental stability of a woman, due to comments that are false and off the deep end, then DW calls that a character attack. But it is evidently not a character attack when DW does it.
DW is the master of the very “satanic character attacks” that he so often talks about here.
DW also said….“ As for Bro Grunbaum he get's bored with your stupidity , he just actually get's bored with stupidity in general, so does Bro Rando. You know we all do. We have far more important things to do with our lives than argue something with someone that we would only argue with somebody you would say is an antichrist.”
MY REPLY: Well, then why DOES he continue to argue about it? He has shown he cannot give a competent answer to the Scripture, and I certainly have not forced him to comment. Now DW, I will post whatever Scriptural posts I want to, on ANY subject I wish to. If you want to counter it or engage me in discussion, then by all means, give me that Scriptural mauling that you mentioned awhile back. If not, fine. But you are the one choosing to make yourself look silly, and it has absolutely ZERO effect on what I will post now, or in the future.
You’re a slow learner….
The most telling part about all of this, is that DW CLAIMS they are not worried about me or what I think, yet there is a new post about me almost every day. Seems like it is getting to them just a bit, otherwise, why would they bother? Actually, that encourages me…it shows the truth is being told, and those who are in darkness don’t like it. Just the way the Bible said it would be.
Now, on to the JW lady that has written him several times. My purpose is not to pick on this poor lady, because her reactions only show that she is unsettled because her false doctrine is being ripped apart, and she is reacting accordingly. I know nothing about her character, and despite DW’s lying and saying I have attacked her character, I will leave her character out of this. But there is no doubt she is very unstable, and her emotions are getting the best of her, because her error is being exposed. The comments which follow, are the reason I told DW she seems to be in need of psychiatric help, and that she is out of her head.
Here are some samples of her over-reactions, which DW calls “very good and valid points”. But funny, he doesn’t have the spine to call them what they obviously are….character attacks.
EXCERPTS FROM THE JW LADY:
“Derrick is saying that Jesus really didn't have to die in the first place because he really never gave up his body for us, he just kept it.”
(a false statement)
“ So basically, Derrick is saying God and Jesus are both into Sadist and Masochist who like to see and feel people get scourged and impaled for no reason.”
(another false statement)
“So now Derrick has to come back with, "well uh, he had cut the head off of someone else and sewed it on to his body so that's why his face was different, but uh, he still had the same body, yeah..that's it!" No Derrick, it's not it and you can't make it be it, no matter what you say or do!”
(a false statement…I’m noticing a trend here)
“But Dense Derrick must believe in Santa Claus and think that he can give toys to kids in the entire world in one night.”
(WHAT? You mean he can’t?????? This is another false statement, and a totally ignorant one, since it has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion at hand, of Jesus’ resurrected body. Just a feeble attempt to attack the person)
“Derrick and his friend Satan…”
(a character attack)
“the way he takes things and twists them around to being something else is just how satan works, his Father.”
(a character attack, and I'm still trying to figure out if she thinks me and Satan are "just friends", or "relatives". And if twisting things around is evidence of Satan being someone’s father, then maybe these people should look in the mirror. Especially since this woman didn’t get one statement correct about my beliefs, or what the Bible says)
“So he has to lie”
(a character attack, AND a false statement)
“Derrick is so hateful and evil”
(a teeny, weeny character attack?)
“show him to be the liar and scripture twister that he is!”
(a character attack)
“Derrick and cohorts keep fighting against Bible Truths!”
(a false statement and a character attack)
“People who want to defend Derrick the liar”
(a character attack)
“So we see Derrick calling Jesus a liar by saying he didn’t give his body/flesh.”
(a false statement and a character attack)
“So what Derrick is the author of the Bible now?”
(just a plain dumb question)
“Derrick wants to be God!”
(a false statement. I think that job is already taken)
“Derrick is proven the big liar that he is!!”
(a false statement, AND a character attack)
These are what DW calls “great points”, and not character attacks…lol. Poor DW. And people are supposed to take what you say seriously?
JW LADY: “So by Derrick denying that Jesus gave his body or flesh as a ransom with Jehovah accepting that as payment, then Derrick is not only calling Jesus a liar, but is also accusing God of lying and deception by accepting as being redeemed or paid that which was not even given. That’s very serious!”
MY REPLY: No, this is not a character attack any more so than the ones listed above, but I post it for 2 reasons. First, this lady is absolutely clueless as to what she is talking about. Nobody I know denies that Jesus gave His body a ransom. The point of contention is whether or not His rising in the flesh, negates the ransom. It doesn’t.
Now, what was this lady saying about about “twisting things around”, and that being a mark of being a child of Satan?
My SECOND reason for posting this, is because this is the ONE statement of hers that actually DOES make a “great and valid point”, as DW says. And her GREAT point is this….It IS VERY DANGEROUS to call Jesus a liar, or accuse God of deception.
Great point, ma’am. But that is exactly the very thing that YOU and your friends do, when you claim that Jesus materialized bodies in the flesh that were not His true body, and telling people OUTRIGHT that He was NOT a “spirit”, if He actually was. Now, this woman has made much to do about claiming that I disagree with Jesus, even asking for a show of hands as to who is on Jesus’ side, and who is on mine. Well, actually my point is much more in agreement with Jesus than hers is.
Luke 24:37-39- “But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.”
Now, I maintain that Jesus rose in a physical body, and was NOT a spirit. JW’s maintain that He rose in a spirit body, and was NOT in a physical body, except for brief materializations designed to make the disciples believe it was Him, because they KNOW FULL WELL that a spirit body wouldn’t do the trick.
So, who is right? What did Jesus say? Did He say He was, or was NOT, a spirit? Did He say His body was flesh and bones, or that it was not?
I think its quite clear that my position is the one in harmony with Jesus’ words, while these JWs will now fall over themselves to try and explain away and twist this one too.
"But, but but...", they say, "these are just examples of His materializing into temporary bodies!!!!!"
Despite the fact that the Scripture never once implies or states that Jesus materialized into a temporary fleshly body, or even gives us a reason why He would need to, this is their lame explanation to these clear passages of Scripture.
Basically, let me sum it up this way....The whole JW premise about the fleshly body of Jesus Christ after the resurrection, can be explained by the following:
Jesus had to take on a body that wasn't really His, to convince the disciples that it was really Him, because if He showed up as He really was, they wouldn't believe it was really Him.
Now, despite the numerous attempts to explain away Jesus’ words in John 2:19, we still see that none of them have been able to do away with Jesus’ simple statement. DW has spent all his time trying to tell us about building materials and why a literal reading of this text simply won’t work, when it works just fine, harmonizes with ALL the Scriptures on the subject, and makes the most sense. Then, you have the JW lady posting all sorts of nonsensical attacks towards me personally, as if that type of argumentation is going to sway any thinking person. And then you have Rando, never one to tell the truth, with all of his ridiculous distortions of the truth.
Bottom line….NONE of them can answer the question, and have only displayed that they do not understand simple words such as “this” and “it”. It seems to fly right over their heads, that Jesus was speaking in plain terms to plain people, some of who (His disciples) would later remember His statement as a reference to His bodily resurrection.
But Rando did something else that Rando typically does….CHANGE THE SUBJECT, in order to launch another attack on me. Yes, that is exactly what he did when he sent DW a link about a discussion I had back in 2009, on the subject of Hell. First of all, this CURRENT discussion is not about Hell, but Rando is merely trying to create a distraction from the issue we are discussing now...the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Secondly, and no surprise here, Rando wasn’t exactly honest in what he posted, because he failed to mention that I thoroughly responded to, and refuted that questioner in a 4-part reply, dated May 17, 2009. Anyone can check it out. You neglected to tell the readers that, Rando. It seems you were once again trying to give a false impression, that somehow I was stumped by this person.
Why do you lie, Rando? Such a shame. You have been told by me, and countless others, and shown Scriptures from the Bible, showing what Jehovah God thinks of those who lie. Yet, you simply refuse to tell the truth.
So, despite seeing the warnings from both Scripture, and from his own literature, he still lies. That is what fear and hate does to a person. That is why you see the under-handed tactics employed by the likes of Rando and DW on this forum. They have nothing by way of a Scriptural answer to offer, so they attack, lie, and twist, and then tell everyone that the person they are attacking is the one doing it.
Oh, and Rando, you might wish to know that the very questioner whom you referenced in that discussion, is no longer an active JW. Not that he doesn’t still hold to many JW doctrines…he does. But he has disagreements as well, and is no longer an active JW. Just thought you might like to know that, Rando.
So, since the JW lady raised the topic of siding with or against Jesus, then I have a simple question for you JW experts on this board.....
Was the body that rose again in 3 days, the SAME body that was put to death, as Jesus said it would be? Or do you guys know something that Jesus didn't?
That's an important question, and since DW likes to play a game of telling us what our Bibles SHOULD say for our interpretation to be correct, maybe we can play the same game. Let's see....
WHAT JESUS SAID...."Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy THIS temple, and in three days I will raise IT up."
WHAT JESUS WOULD HAVE SAID, HAD DW BEEN CORRECT...."Destroy the temple of my body, not my REAL BODY, mind you, but the temple of my body, and I will raise up ANOTHER temple/body in the future."
So, the JW lady asks a very valid question....Do we side with Jesus, or against Him?
Rando? DW? Lady? Bill? Grunbaum? Anyone?