Jehovah`s Witness/God's channel of communication

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QUESTION: In the watchtower they claim to be God's only channel of communication to the people on earth.  If this is so why all the varios predictions about when armegedden would occur? The bible clearly states that only God knows when this will happen. If God is using the watchtower to let His will be known, why would He let these people publish these facts as they see them. They even admitted they made a mistake by predicting armagedden.So wouldn't that make the watchtower a false prophet since they claim to be speaking for God and made predictions that did not come to pass? They even call themselves prophets more than once in the watchtower publications.
Thank you in advance.

ANSWER:     Hello Kevin,
   
   Sorry for the delay

   I thought there's no questions waiting for me here hehe

   Well to begin, You made a very interesting questions.

   You said:

   "In the watchtower they claim to be God's only channel of communication to the people on earth. If this is so why all the varios predictions about when armegedden would occur?"

   ___________________________________________________
   Reply:

   I understand reading a comment like yours cause you obviously don't know most about on our organization. However, I'm still glad you ask so that you may know(now) the real story behind all of that false accusations( I must say "defamations" )

   First, you must know how to distinguish the meaning of the word "PREDICTION" between "SPECULATION" okay??? So not to make you more CONFUSED, "WE DON'T PREDICT FUTURE EVENTS" but "WE ONLY SPECULATE EVENTS" I mean, we just look at it as an "SPECULATION" from bible chronology...BESIDES, what we have from the very beginning(late 1880's) we never claimed as an INSPIRED PROPHETS!!!! And in fact(in case if you don't know), we believed that the gifts of the spirit were already done away with(many years ago)
   ___________________________________________________
   You said:

   "The bible clearly states that only God knows when this will happen. If God is using the watchtower to let His will be known, why would He let these people publish these facts as they see them. They even admitted they made a mistake by predicting armagedden."
   ___________________________________________________
   Reply:

   You can't change the fact that Jehovah God chooses this organization already because it's the only organization here on earth feeding spiritual food over his domestics(Matt.24:45)
   Can you also present me a copy of that Publications that states we predicted it?? as far as I remember(again), we just look at it as an "SPECULATION" from the bible chronology!!! And we don't put anything forth as a prophecy because we don't claimed as divinely inspired! Well, something cross in my mind that I have to add up to that issue about "armagedden". It's the 1966 convention that was held at Baltimore,Maryland where F.W. Franz gave the concluding talk he said: ‘It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And DON’T ANY OF YOU BE SPECIFIC in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that.’”
   ___________________________________________________
   You said:

   
   "So wouldn't that make the watchtower a false prophet since they claim to be speaking for God and made predictions that did not come to pass? They even call themselves prophets more than once in the watchtower publications."
   ___________________________________________________
   Reply:
   
   NO! just what I said, we do not "PREDICT" future events.
   To add up, even the apostles and other early Christian disciples had certain wrong expectations(back then), but the Bible does not classify them with the "false prophets."-See Luke 19:ll; John 21:22, 23; Acts 1:6, 7
   We call ourselves a prophet because the Greek pro·phe′tes literally means “a speaker out [Gr., pro, “before” or “in front of,” and phe·mi′, “say”]” and thus describes a proclaimer, one who makes known messages attributed to a divine source. (Compare Tit 1:12.) Though this includes the thought of a predictor of the future, the fundamental meaning of the word is not that of prediction. (Compare Jg 6:7-10.)




---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: 1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," #Awake, Oct. 8, 1968

1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," #Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89#.

1899 "...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' #Revelation 16:14#, which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," #The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101#.

IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET" -- "So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?...This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses...Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it," #Watchtower,  Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197#. #See Deut. 18:21.#

So I have found just a few examples of the watchtower of 'speculating'things to occur.The problem is that they call themselves prophets of God. To say speculate is probably not the right word choice here, remember 'and to declare things to come'sounds to me more like prophecy than prediction. If I say something will happen next week,say the final score of a football game, that's a prediction. Even if I use stats to back up my claim,it's still a prediction.  If I say my prediction is from God, that makes it prophecy doesn't it? As far as I know, when reading about prophets in the bible, I understand them to be speaking on God's behalf aboutfuture events.That God shows us how to identifythese false prophets. "when someone says something in my namethat does not come to pass,they are false prophets"
In conclusion,The watchtower has set dates for things to happen that did not happen. They claim to be mouthpieces for God. I just think it's a very slippery slope when you want something to happen that you look for evidence in the scriptures to support it, then change your stance when this event didn't happen. Before 1975 much was written in the watchtower pub. about Armageddon.  When this didn't happen they said it was a miscalculation of the 6000 years from Adam. Again if only God knows the last day, how could anyone deduce this last day, even using the scriptures? Fred Franz also said that this would occur on ,forgive me if the date is not exact, Oct. 2nd at sundown 1975.
I'm not trying to be belligerent with you, it's just that I don't think people should try to say when something like Armageddon will happen exactly. Jesus said we will know when the time is near through signs He gives us. So one should be careful that they don't misinterpret those signs. We'll know without a doubt.
Thank You.  Look forward to hearing what you think.  Kevin

ANSWER:      Hello again kev


    I do really appreciate your thinking level!

    BUT.... just a friendly advice for you Kev before we begin, "Before you seriously accused someone because you think they're doing some negative things, make sure that you already know the whole story about them and about it okay??"
_____________________________________________________________

    You:

    "1968 "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them," #Awake, Oct. 8, 1968"


    Reply:

    So that's very very clear right there!!! ("Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them,")
    
>>Because they thought they're being "DIVINELY INSPIRED"

    Whereas Jehovah's Witnesses as I said, that what they have from the very beginning(1880's) never claimed to be divinely inspired prophets:


We have not the gift of prophesy
Zion's Watch Tower, July 1883.

"We are not prophesying; we are merely giving our surmises ..... We do not even aver that there is no mistake in our interpretation of prophecy and our calculations of chronology. We have merely laid these before you, leaving it for each to exercise his own faith or doubt in respect to them"
______________________________________________________________

    You:

    "1918 "Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection," #Millions Now Living Will Never Die, p. 89#. "


    Reply:

    JW’s believe & teach the Bible, & the bible doesn’t say these men were resurrected, it teaches these three are asleep in their graves awaiting a resurrection.(JOHN 5;28,29)

I'm sure you never read that BOOK! :-)
_______________________________________________________________

    You:

    "1899 "...the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' #Revelation 16:14#, which will end in A.D. 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's present rulership, is already commenced," #The Time Is at Hand, 1908 edition, p. 101#. "


    Reply:

    Who told you that the 'battle of the great day of God Almighty' #Revelation 16:14# have already ended way back 1914 since Revelation 16:14 is talking of FUTURE, meaning, "DOESN'T YET TO COME"????? did you really read the BOOK??? OKAY! let me inform you that the year 1914 to us JW's meaning that Christ was installed in the heavens as earth's rightful ruler.(Long explanations) just inform me if you want to know!
________________________________________________________________

    You:

    "IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET" -- "So does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet?...This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses...Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a 'prophet' of God. It is another thing to prove it," #Watchtower,  Apr. 1, 1972, p. 197#. #See Deut. 18:21.#"


    Reply:

    "Because the Greek pro·phe′tes literally means “a speaker out [Gr., pro, “before” or “in front of,” and phe·mi′, “say”]” and thus describes a proclaimer, one who makes known messages attributed to a divine source. (Compare Tit 1:12.) Though this includes the thought of a predictor of the future, the fundamental meaning of the word is not that of prediction. (Compare Jg 6:7-10.)"

--QUOTED from: INSIGHT ON THE SCRIPTURES
_________________________________________________________________

    You:

    "So I have found just a few examples of the watchtower of 'speculating'things to occur.The problem is that they call themselves prophets of God."


    Reply:

    NO!!!!! the problem is... you don't know the REAL and the APPROPRIATE meaning of the WORD "PROPHET" so now you know!!!


    You:

    "To say speculate is probably not the right word choice here, remember 'and to declare things to come'sounds to me more like prophecy than prediction. If I say something will happen next week,say the final score of a football game, that's a prediction. Even if I use stats to back up my claim,it's still a prediction.  If I say my prediction is from God, that makes it prophecy doesn't it?"



    Reply:

    So to tell you once again and again, "WE DO NOT PROPHESY" I repeat "WE DO NOT PROPHESY" We don't even "PREDICT" What we're only been doing is: "KEEPING ON THE WATCH" as Jesus said(Matthew 24:42) So, what's the FIRST thing to do??? Therefore Keeping all his words to mind, study it, understand, and then apply. So let me ask you, is it wrongful to study BIBLE's CHRONOLOGY and then have a conclusion about it and then tell the world that it is just a SPECUALTION not a PROPHECY???  So we don't claim to have NEW REVELATIONS!!! WE just MAKES GOD's ALREADY written word to be known!!! what's wrong with that???
_________________________________________________________________

    You:

    "As far as I know, when reading about prophets in the bible, I understand them to be speaking on God's behalf aboutfuture events.That God shows us how to identifythese false prophets. "when someone says something in my namethat does not come to pass,they are false prophets"
In conclusion,The watchtower has set dates for things to happen that did not happen. They claim to be mouthpieces for God. I just think it's a very slippery slope when you want something to happen that you look for evidence in the scriptures to support it, then change your stance when this event didn't happen."


    Reply:

    YES! they are "MOUTHPIECES" for God but just as I said, that "WE DON'T CLAIM TO HAVE NEW REVELATIONS" okay??? We are just a "PROCLAIMER", who makes known messages attributed to a divine source(especially the BIBLE) So since the BIBLE is inspired already(2 Timothy 3:16), then there's no need for us to be inspired too but just to MAKES IT KNOWN. So NOW YOU KNOW!
_________________________________________________________________

    You:

    "Before 1975 much was written in the watchtower pub. about Armageddon.  When this didn't happen they said it was a miscalculation of the 6000 years from Adam."



    Reply:

    The apostles and other early Christian disciples had certain wrong expectations(back then), but the Bible does not classify them with the "false prophets."-See Luke 19:ll; John 21:22, 23; Acts 1:6, 7

    But what we believe is that....“the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.”(Proverbs 4:18)
_________________________________________________________________

    You:

    "Again if only God knows the last day, how could anyone deduce this last day, even using the scriptures? Fred Franz also said that this would occur on ,forgive me if the date is not exact, Oct. 2nd at sundown 1975. "


    Reply:

    I don't think he said that since you are not sure either!!!! But the most ASSURE one was his statement that was held at Baltimore,Maryland where he gave the concluding talk which I quote again: ‘It could. But we are not saying. All things are possible with God. But we are not saying. And DON’T ANY OF YOU BE SPECIFIC in saying anything that is going to happen between now and 1975. But the big point of it all is this, dear friends: Time is short. Time is running out, no question about that.’”

     So, all things are in God's hands!!!



    You:

    "I'm not trying to be belligerent with you, it's just that I don't think people should try to say when something like Armageddon will happen exactly. Jesus said we will know when the time is near through signs He gives us. So one should be careful that they don't misinterpret those signs. We'll know without a doubt."



    Reply:

    Did we say "EXACTLY"??? Okay, so let me INFORM you again that we are aware of this VERSE here: “Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.”(Matthew 24:36)

    NOW, if you still want to insist, then it's up to you! (NO PRESSURE)

    The truth is there!

    Time won't permit



---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------

QUESTION: Thanks for your response. I think saying something will happen on a specific day,year and minute would more or less be considered exact. You show one quote from Mr. Franz about not being specific,but you ignore all the specific dates.  Much has been written in the watchtower about Armageddon and when to expect it.  I assuming that if you were interested in the truth about this you could easily do a google search and read about all that was written. Charles Russell wrote a lot about 1914 being the end of days in the watchtower.  It was later changed to the last days .There was even a picture on the watchtower cover with the words Armageddon and 1914 in the same headline.  What should the reader understand from this. The watchtower even wrote how they should no longer set dates,then went on to set dates. If you choose to read up on the old watchtower publications I would be hard pressed to see how one could not see that they are saying that not only is the end very near, "but months not years". I even saw a watchtower dvd that said how Russell's students were disappointed when they didn't receive their reward in heaven after the date in 1914 came and went.Again if you choose to read about what Russell wrote regarding the Parosia beginning in 1874 and ending in 1914 you might be amazed.Obviously if you say something will happen and it doesn't happen you are proven wrong. Changing your understanding doesn't change the fact that you were still wrong. Sure, the watchtower says that they were only expecting or hoping this to occur, but encouraging brothers to sell all their possessions and devote all their time to pioneering because the time is at hand seems a little misguided and bad advice.  They also said that getting a higher  education might not be the best idea, as you wouldn't need it on paradise earth. Franz based all his information regarding Jesus's return and Armageddon on the 6000 years following Adam. Now the view was that is was a miscalculation.  Since nobody knows exactly when Eve was created it would be hard to come up with 6000 years. Don't forget the genealogy of Genesis is not complete in many persons views, stating that there isn't enough room to state every persons names.  Also the book of Job says that God will keep his covenant with his people for a thousand generations. It's my understanding that a generation in the bible is about 40 years, probably not six.
Thanks Again.  Kevin

Answer
    You:

    "I think saying something will happen on a specific day,year and minute would more or less be considered exact. You show one quote from Mr. Franz about not being specific,but you ignore all the specific dates.  Much has been written in the watchtower about Armageddon and when to expect it.  I assuming that if you were interested in the truth about this you could easily do a google search and read about all that was written. Charles Russell wrote a lot about 1914 being the end of days in the watchtower."



    Reply:

    Kevin, let me remind you that the issue here is ARMAGEDDON so that's why I quoted Brother Franz' statements about 'NOT BEING SPECIFIC' Because just as I said, we are aware of this verse(Matthew 24:36)“Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” ... Now for you to say that I ignore all the specific dates written in the watchtower about ARMAGEDDON??? are you sure??? Can you present me just one a quote from that publication that says we SPECIFICALLY POINTED THE EXACT YEAR,MONTHS,DAYS AND HOURS???
    So you're pointing 1914, and you're not aware that 1914 was predicted by Jesus himself in his great prophetic answer to signs of the end, he said:

    (Matthew 24:7) . . .For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. . .

This was a prediction of a total world war which proved to be 1914 World War I.
The brothers didn't know a war would break out on earth in 1914 but they should have known since they knew that year was the end of the Gentile times,they knew that in the 1800's and proclaimed that 1914 was the end,I can see why they said it was the end looking back on it.


They knew the end was then they just didn't know it was the beginning of the last days,so they said:



“While it’s possible that Armageddon may begin next Spring, yet this purely speculation to attempt to say just when. We see, however, that there are parallels between the close of the Jewish age and this Gospel age. These parallels seem to point to the year just before us part particularly the early months

Sept 1, 1914, p. 5527



Studying God’s Word, we have measured the 2520 years, the seven symbolic times, from that year 606 B.C. and have found that it reached down to October, 1914, as nearly as we were able to reckon. We did not say positively that this would be the year.”

Watchtower, November 1, 1914, p. 325


True, it is expecting great things to claim, as we do, that within the coming twenty-six years all present governments will be overthrown and dissolved”

The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99




So they understood the Gentile time would end in 1914 so yes you would think it was the end,I have no problem with it.




“In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished at the end of A. D. 1914.”

The Time Is At Hand; 1889; 1908 ed.; p. 99



So we dont need the Watchtower predicting 1914 Jesus himself literally pointed to that year.

Now the brothers then knew the actual end was yet future ,so the next logical date was 1975 Oct
because it marked the end of 6,000 since Adam was created and since each creative day was 7,000 years long 1975 could mean we were 6,000 into that creative day with only 1,000 years
left and that would be the Judgement day of a thousand years.


Never did any of the brothers come out and say that was the end,no one can produce a date where it was said or a talk,they believed it but said lets wait and see:

*** w75 10/1 p. 579 The End of 6,000 Years of Man-Rule Approaches—What Has Been Accomplished? ***

SINCE a new Jewish lunar year began in September 1975 a significant point in human history was reached. What was that? According to the Bible’s count of time, mankind then completed 6,000 years of existence on earth. Yes, the first man Adam, if he had chosen to remain obedient under God’s rulership, would have still been alive and 6,000 years old in September of this year.

Does this mean, then, that mankind has now reached 6,000 years into the 7,000-year period that God ‘blessed and made sacred’ as his great “rest day”? Does it mean that Christ’s millennial Kingdom rule, as the final 1,000 years of that “rest day,” is to be reckoned from September 1975?—Gen. 1:27, 31; 2:2, 3; Rev. 20:1-6.



This was printed before october 1975 ,so they were saying

*** w75 10/1 p. 579 The End of 6,000 Years of Man-Rule Approaches—What Has Been Accomplished? ***

"No, it does not mean that"



And they explained why it might not mean it was the end:



*** w75 10/1 p. 579 The End of 6,000 Years of Man-Rule Approaches—What Has Been Accomplished? ***

"Why not? Well, the Bible record shows that God’s creations on the “day” just preceding that 7,000-year “rest day” did not end with Adam’s creation. It shows a time lapse between the creation of Adam and that of his wife, Eve. During that time, God had Adam name the animals. Whether that period amounted to weeks or months or years, we do not know. So we do not know exactly when Jehovah’s great “rest day” began, nor do we know exactly when it will end"



>>I read about Eve being created after Adam named the animals and thought she was created not long after,if that was true, then we would have saw the end.



Now here we are over 30 years later which means Adam was alone for decades,he was not still naming animals but was learning things himself ,in 1976 when they knew she was not created at the same time said this:




*** w76 7/15 p. 436 Keeping a Balanced View of Time ***

God has not revealed to us. One of those things is the time for the outbreak of the “great tribulation” prefigured by the tribulation that came upon Jerusalem, a tribulation that will be global in its fulfillment.



*** w76 7/15 p. 436 Keeping a Balanced View of Time ***

There are reasons why we cannot know this. For one thing, even though Bible chronology clearly indicates that we have reached the mark of six thousand years since the time of the creation of the first human, Adam, it does not tell us just how long after that event the sixth creative day came to its close and the seventh creative period or “day,” God’s great rest day, began.



So NO ONE KNOWS when the 6 day ended and the 7th began ,even the Devil don't know but has a good idea ,better than the witnesses for this reason:



*** w76 7/15 p. 436 Keeping a Balanced View of Time ***

that great rest day did not begin immediately after Adam’s creation. Other events took place after Adam’s creation but before the close of the sixth creative day. One of these is of great importance to all of us. That is the creation of the first woman, Eve




Satan can unlike us look backwards to exactly when she was created as opposed to Adam so he knows just how many years that was,but even then he doesn't know when the 7th day began because there was no announcement this was all in Gods mind.


Now the Devil see that's its been over 30 years since 1975 which means Adam would be 6,037 years old had he still been living,so he is well aware where we are in the stream of time and the 1,000 must be very close.


So Eve would be close to 6,000 old now and that could mark 6,000 yrs into the 7th day with 1,000 left.
_________________________________________________________

    You:

    "Since nobody knows exactly when Eve was created it would be hard to come up with 6000 years. Don't forget the genealogy of Genesis is not complete in many persons views"



    Reply:

    If you would only pay PARTICULAR ATTENTION from the GENEALOGY of Genesis then we can say how old God viewed a man to be mature so it gives us an idea how old Adam was when Eve was created:


(Genesis 11:12) . . .And Ar·pach´shad lived thirty-five years. Then he became father to She´lah. . .

(Genesis 11:14) . . .And She´lah lived thirty years. Then he became father to E´ber. . .

(Genesis 11:16) 16 And E´ber lived on for thirty-four years. Then he became father to Pe´leg. . .

(Genesis 11:18) 18 And Pe´leg lived on for thirty years. Then he became father to Re´u. . .

(Genesis 11:20) . . .And Re´u lived on for thirty-two years. Then he became father to Se´rug. . .

(Genesis 11:22) 22 And Se´rug lived on for thirty years. Then he became father to Na´hor. . .



So we see just after the flood, God view a mature man to marry at 30 yrs old

So this means Eve was created at least 30 years after Adam and its been 37 since 1975.




Take care

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Bro K.J. P. Nacilla

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I can answer any kinds of questions which are only related in the "SCRIPTURES" especially when it comes to Jehovah's Witnesses' doctrinal beliefs! However, I still do not consider myself as an expert, but rather, as a well-trained faithful servant of Jehovah God with the aid of his holy spirit. NOTE: I NOTICED that there are many FILIPINO viewer like me here in this site who preferred to be taught in our own dialect so I am volunteering here as an expert just to help my fellow FILIPINO out there who don't know much in speaking and even understanding English language.

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I have been baptized as a Jehovah's Witness when I was just 20 years old. Now serving my 10th year in the ministry as a FULL-TIME OVERSEER

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I would prefer to study the writings and any publications of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society than my own writings. I'm just a zealous servant of Jehovah God who's willing to serve Him to the fullest.

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I have finished my Bachelor of Arts Major in Psychology from Ateneo de Manila University in 2007 and having attended a well-known Bible college with an excellent teaching which is the "KINGDOM MINISTRY SCHOOL" of Jehovah's Witnesses.

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